HIGHLA-L Digest - 23 Jun 2004 to 24 Jun 2004 (#2004-118)
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Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:00:05 -0400
There are 4 messages totalling 190 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Chivalry (3)
2. Amanda
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Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 23:01:19 -0400
From: Wendy Tillis <immortals_incorporated@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Chivalry
me:
> > So far as we know, killing a pre-Immortal (taking his head) doesn't
>result in a Quickening, so the Immortal gains nothing except a slight
>lessening of possible future competition. I think one's time would be
>better spend training and fighting present day threats. Some pre-Immortals
>might never become immortal at all and most will be easy pickings in the
>first years after they become Immortal. Why!
Greg:
>Kill the pre-Immortal (not by beheading). Wait until the pre-Immie
>"awakens" and becomes Immortal. Decapitate the new Immortal since s/he is
>confused and probably cannot fight that well (if at all). Get the
>Quickening. Repeat as necessary. Must be something that keeps even the
>most evil ones from doing that.
Lack of interest? A disdain for "baby" Quickenings? I will grant that there probably was an Immortal who did this, more than one maybe. But it doesn't seem to be a big concern - we never see Duncan worry about Richie running into an Immortal until *after* he becomes Immortal. He doesn't keep terribly close tabs on Michelle or Claudia.If they were in mortal danger from other Immortals, surely he would find a way to protect them.
Me:
>>Only if you believe that a long mortal life is less valuable than a
>>potentially short Immortal one.
Greg:
>Again, it all hinges on whether the pre-Immortal will be left alone by the
>evil Immortals. The mortal life could also be short if a paranoid Immortal
>were out there ("Do unto others before they do unto you."). Maybe that's
>what the Kurgan meant with the words, "It's better to burn out than fade
>away."
And, again, we never saw an Immortal hunting pre-Immortals. We did see Immortals co-existing with Immortals. I think we can assume that pre-Immortals were generally safe from Immortals hunting their heads.
Greg:
>Other than Duncan, Connor (if you took his words of "The boy will need
>watching" in a certain context) and Amanda (in Raven), I can't think of
>others who could sense pre-Immortals off the top of my head. I doubt that
>it's a rare trait, but there is no canonical evidence to support either
>theory.
Let's see. Connor sensed Richie. Duncan sensed Richie and others. Amanda sensed Nick. Walter sensed Claudia. Methos sensed Claudia. That's 5 different Immortals who could sense pre-Immortals. I think it's safe to say that Cassandra knew what young Duncan was. That's 6. That's a pretty fair sampling considering that the topic wasn't that common on HL.
>>Wendy(Damon Case was over 100 when he died.)(Or so the Watchers Chronicle
>>says)(Born 961, died 1068)(Seems unlikely<eg)
>
>That's a Watcher typo. They probably meant 1008. Or else Case was very
>spry and youthful for a 107-year-old.
Even 1008 would have made him 60. Typo indeed.
Wendy(The Watchers made a mistake!)(The Watcher's Chronicles are inaccurate!)(Generations of work called into question!)(These things didn't happen when we made notes on parchment)
Immortals Inc.
immortals_incorporated@cox.net
"Weasels for Eternity"
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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 01:08:45 -0700
From: Gregory Mate <gmate@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Chivalry
Wendy:
>Lack of interest? A disdain for "baby" Quickenings? I will grant that
>there probably was an Immortal who did this, more than one maybe. But it
>doesn't seem to be a big concern - we never see Duncan worry about Richie
>running into an Immortal until *after* he becomes Immortal. He doesn't
>keep terribly close tabs on Michelle or Claudia.If they were in mortal
>danger from other Immortals, surely he would find a way to protect them.
Amanda was supposed to be training Michelle. I'm sure Amanda does a great
job keeping her students out of trouble.
>And, again, we never saw an Immortal hunting pre-Immortals. We did see
>Immortals co-existing with Immortals. I think we can assume that
>pre-Immortals were generally safe from Immortals hunting their heads.
That doesn't make much sense from a logical point of view, but then neither
does the one-on-one rule (for dishonourable Immortals) or the Holy Ground
rule. Perhaps it's considered bad form to lop the heads of innocents.
>Let's see. Connor sensed Richie. Duncan sensed Richie and others. Amanda
>sensed Nick. Walter sensed Claudia. Methos sensed Claudia. That's 5
>different Immortals who could sense pre-Immortals. I think it's safe to
>say that Cassandra knew what young Duncan was. That's 6. That's a pretty
>fair sampling considering that the topic wasn't that common on HL.
Canonically speaking, then, all Immortals can sense pre-Immortals, but
don't treat them too differently from mortals. So as long as that happens,
then I can understand why Duncan would act how he does with respect to
letting "Fate" take its course, and that some pre-Immortals would get upset
at being 25 forever.
> >>Wendy(Damon Case was over 100 when he died.)(Or so the Watchers Chronicle
> >>says)(Born 961, died 1068)(Seems unlikely<eg)
Me:
> >That's a Watcher typo. They probably meant 1008. Or else Case was very
> >spry and youthful for a 107-year-old.
Wendy:
>Even 1008 would have made him 60. Typo indeed.
I was thinking that his year of death should be 1008 rather than 1068. In
that case I come up with 47 (more or less, depending on the months), still
older in appearance than the actor who portrayed him, but probably better
able to last approximately another 1,000 years. Unless you're using
Weasel-Math, in which case the correct answer is that of the one who is
better at arguing.
>Wendy(The Watchers made a mistake!)(The Watcher's Chronicles are
>inaccurate!)(Generations of work called into question!)(These things
>didn't happen when we made notes on parchment)
Who said Watchers had to have good penmanship? They didn't all study at
the Kalas School of Scriveners.
....Greg....
gmate@rogers.com
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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:13:39 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Chivalry
Wendy--
> I think it's safe to say that Cassandra knew what young Duncan was.
Baby beefcake in a kilt?
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:43:38 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Amanda
macgeorge--
> This all may actually be more semantics than substance, since I agree that
> Amanda enjoys her thievery. I also am of the opinion, however, that she
> learned very early on that a) She was good at theft and it *had* made the
> difference between survival and death at some critical moments in her
> pre-Immortal life;
Well, it also got her killed the 1st time. One might think that would have
taught her something.
> Maybe Amanda is "smart" in a way that provided a distinct set of skills,
but
> she wasn't truly "intelligent" enough to expand beyond those skills as
> quickly as Duncan expanded beyond being a sword-for-hire.
I find it interesting that so many other F'Immies DID grow & adapt through
centuries w/ the times, attaining skills, status & financial security,
apparently w/o egregiously breaking the law (other than being creative w/
their ID's). Some of them we aren't told enough about to judge, but the
financially secure list would include Rebecca, Grace, May-Ling, Ceirdwyn, &
Kristin, as well as all the season 6ers--Alex Raven, Kyra, Katya, Reagan &
Kate. Even Cassandra was rolling in it once she patented press-on nails.
I just think Amanda was addicted to the adrenaline rush of high-stakes
thievery & persisted in risking her freedom as well as her head for the
sheer fun of it. That, or the writers never got any better ideas for her.
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 23 Jun 2004 to 24 Jun 2004 (#2004-118)
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