HIGHLA-L Digest - 24 Jun 2004 to 25 Jun 2004 (#2004-119)
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Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:00:15 -0400
There are 18 messages totalling 578 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Chivalry (13)
2. Immie sensitivity (was--Re: Chivalry) (5)
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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:12:32 -0400
From: Sandy Fields <diamonique@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Chivalry
At 04:08 AM 6/24/2004, Gregory Mate wrote:
>Amanda was supposed to be training Michelle. I'm sure Amanda does a great
>job keeping her students out of trouble.
That was after Michelle became Immortal. While she was a pre-immie, Duncan
kept tabs on her but he didn't follow her around 24/7 to make sure nobody
whacked her. He was a friend of her parents, but not an everyday visitor.
-- Sandy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 21:34:04 -0500
From: Kamil <kamilaa@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Chivalry
<Wendy>
Lack of interest? A disdain for "baby" Quickenings? I will grant that
there probably was an Immortal who did this, more than one maybe. But
it doesn't seem to be a big concern - we never see Duncan worry about
Richie running into an Immortal until *after* he becomes Immortal. He
doesn't keep terribly close tabs on Michelle or Claudia.If they were
in mortal danger from other Immortals, surely he would find a way to
protect them.
<Greg>
Amanda was supposed to be training Michelle. I'm sure Amanda does a
great job keeping her students out of trouble.
Err, I'm not sure if you're responding to Wendy or not, but if you
are, Amanda wasn't in charge of Michelle's training until after she'd
died the first time and become Immortal. While she was still
pre-immortal (which is what I thought the conversation was about, the
logistics of whacking pre-immies) Duncan seemed to leave her alone. He
was friends with her parents, but that seemed to be about it on the
'watch Michelle' front.
Also, as Wendy says, we never saw one single Immortal hunting
pre-immies -- and if that was a danger, even a remote one, you think
TPTB would've explored it just one.
It would've beat exploring the dangers of the Seacouver waterfront.
I'm just sayin' . . .
--
Kamil
Xander: "My whole life just flashed before my eyes. Man, I've gotta
get me a life."
"Killed by Death" BtVS
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 13:46:37 -0400
From: Wendy Tillis <immortals_incorporated@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Chivalry
Me:
>(Damon Case was over 100 when he died.)(Or so the Watchers
>Chronicle says)(Born 961, died 1068)(Seems unlikely<eg)
Greg:
>> >That's a Watcher typo. They probably meant 1008. Or else Case was very
>> >spry and youthful for a 107-year-old.
Me:
>>Even 1008 would have made him 60. Typo indeed.
Greg:
>I was thinking that his year of death should be 1008 rather than 1068. In
>that case I come up with 47 (more or less, depending on the months), still
>older in appearance than the actor who portrayed him, but probably better
>able to last approximately another 1,000 years.
Well, the Chronicle (as if we can believe *that*) says he died repelling the Normans - which fits with the 1068 death date. So we need to move his "born on" date forward. I wouldn't have thought he was much older than 50, so 1018 seems about right, although 1028 is more likely. Guess we'll never know.
> Unless you're using Weasel-Math, in which case the correct answer is that of the one who is
>better at arguing.
I always use Weasel-Math and the correct answer is whatever I say it is.
Wendy(I was promised there would be no math on this list!)
Immortals Inc.
immortals_incorporated@cox.net
"Weasels for Eternity"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:57:58 -0400
From: Fred Versch <TecnoGypsy@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Chivalry
Greetings my lovelies,
Yes it’s been awhile; I’m loving this new Port Orchard, Washington, home of mine. A subverted neighborhood of Seacover.
To the topic at hand:
How about a pre-immie sensing immortals? It seems as TPTB HINTED at that in Free Fall when Joan Jet’s character went to the Duncan’s and Tessa’s antique shop.
Which is WHY she first showed up, Duncan wasn’t there because he would have sensed she was an immortal and not a pre-immortal.
Her words to Richie were, “I felt myself drawn here. Its too weird.”
Then after she faked her death, she showed up at Duncan’s for training.
Another example a young immortal living with an older immortal to learn the ropes, swords, and other aspects of living forever until there is only one. Only as the story of Free Fall goes she faked her mortal life too.
Missed you all, missing Freddie Mercury and Kip and the HL goddess’ whip.
Peace, Love and be GOOD to the Fairies!
~~~Fred~~~
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:17:02 -0400
From: kageorge <kageorge@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Chivalry
From: "FredVersch" <TecnoGypsy@aol.com>
>
> How about a pre-immie sensing immortals? It seems as TPTB HINTED at that
in Free Fall when Joan Jet’s character went to the Duncan’s and Tessa’s
antique shop.
>
> Which is WHY she first showed up, Duncan wasn’t there because he would
have sensed she was an immortal and not a pre-immortal.
>
> Her words to Richie were, “I felt myself drawn here. Its too weird.”
>
> Then after she faked her death, she showed up at Duncan’s for training.
>
> Another example a young immortal living with an older immortal to learn
the ropes, swords, and other aspects of living forever until there is only
one. Only as the story of Free Fall goes she faked her mortal life too.
>
I always thought her story about "being drawn" there was just an (obviously)
made-up excuse The real mystery was why Duncan accepted that it might be
true. As I recall, I think he only responded that it was "possible", as
though it wasn't something he had ever heard of before, but he wasn't
totally discounting the possibility. And since we *know* she made it all
up, it seems to me more evidence that pre-Immortals *can't* sense Immortals
than that they can.
MacGeorge
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:50:39 -0400
From: Fred Versch <TecnoGypsy@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Chivalry
Ahhh, the wonder of it all:
Mr MacGeorge writes:
> I always thought The real mystery was why Duncan accepted that it might be
> true. As I recall, I think he only responded that it was "possible", as
> though it wasn't something he had ever heard of before, but he wasn't
> totally discounting the possibility. And since we *know* she made it all
> up, it seems to me more evidence that pre-Immortals *can't*
> sense Immortals
> than that they can.
Perhaps, that might be possible, sir, though I'm not sure the part about "her story about "being drawn" there was just an (obviously) made-up excuse."
Why does she need an excuse just to show up at a public store?
Even MacLeod's and Noel's Antiques. But I will not totally discount the possibility. Then again, there were the two Episodes (Free Fall and The Road Not Taken) where all immortals were linked and lock together forever. Which I'm all sure that cannon line died
Just have to watch Free Fall again tonight right after the Thirteenth Warrior.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:56:00 -0400
From: Fred Versch <TecnoGypsy@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Chivalry
In a message dated 6/25/2004 3:50:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, TecnoGypsy writes:
> Which I'm all sure that cannon line died
That is I'm sure we ALL are glad that cannon line died.
~~~Fred~~~
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:08:30 +0200
From: T'Mar <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: Chivalry
>Why does she need an excuse just to show up at a public store?
>Even MacLeod's and Noel's Antiques. But I will not totally discount
>the possibility.
I always thought she had checked out Duncan beforehand to hunt him,
waited till he left, put the moves on "little Richie" so that he'd
know her when she returned with her implausible story, then faked
her "first death" to lull Duncan into a false sense of security.
Luckily he didn't fall for it.
- Marina. (Who likes that episode nevertheless.)
\\ "You've heard it said that living well is ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// the best revenge? Au contraire - living || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ forever is the best revenge." - Lacroix ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//===============tmar@sifl.iid.co.za===========|| \\
\\=============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============//
"What about the fact they thought we were gay?"
"Adds mystery." - Wesley and Angel; "Expecting" (Angel)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 16:27:51 -0400
From: Fred Versch <TecnoGypsy@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Chivalry
Friends:
Ms. Marina writes:
> I always thought she had checked out Duncan beforehand to hunt him,
> waited till he left, put the moves on "little Richie" so that he'd
> know her when she returned with her implausible story, then faked
> her "first death" to lull Duncan into a false sense of
> security.
> Luckily he didn't fall for it.
Yes, perhaps, but even she said towards the end she wanted to "see" or "learn” how Duncan fights, so she could put the moves on Duncan. Remember that last folly of words,
Felicia: "You didn't teach me that move!"
Duncan: "It's called <some stupid Italian name of a> move used
on opponents who fight off balanced. (A nice way of asking if she is crazy?)
Peace ~~~Fred~~~
(Went to a friend's house and saw all SIX of their young girls playing in the yard, dancing, twirrling amongst the bushes and trees.
I asked, "Okay, who let the fairies out of the box?")SO be GOOD to those Fairies!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:38:58 +0200
From: T'Mar <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: Chivalry
>Yes, perhaps, but even she said towards the end she wanted to "see" or
>"learn” how Duncan fights, so she could put the moves on Duncan.
Exactly. She did it all to learn about Duncan so she could take his head.
- Marina. (I quite like Felicia anyway. The one immie female Duncan
didn't get to boink. The fact that Richie did is just a bonus, heh.)
\\ "You've heard it said that living well is ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// the best revenge? Au contraire - living || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ forever is the best revenge." - Lacroix ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//===============tmar@sifl.iid.co.za===========|| \\
\\=============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============//
"What about the fact they thought we were gay?"
"Adds mystery." - Wesley and Angel; "Expecting" (Angel)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 10:43:50 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Immie sensitivity (was--Re: Chivalry)
>>> How about a pre-immie sensing immortals? It seems as TPTB HINTED at
that in Free Fall when Joan Jet’s character went to the Duncan’s and Tessa’s
antique shop.>>>
Felicia was lying. DM wasn't sure whether to believe her & was just going
along w/ her story until he caught her in the map-forgery lie. I don't
think the series ever again hinted at pre-immies being able to sense Immies;
the utility would be getting newbies to possible teachers when needed, but
it would back-fire as many times as not w/ evil Immies happy to behead or
simply abuse the students (as we saw or heard about several times, but
always as though the teacher had found the student--not the opposite).
I see this as one of many things the episode just got wrong, due to it being
the very 1st script written.
Probably the dumbest thing about Free Fall (other than Joan Jett's casting &
attempt at sword-play) was that DM just happened to have in his shop a map
Felicia forged 200 years previously--& couldn't keep her mouth shut about.
The ep IS saved, however, by this line from DM—“Are you here in an official
capacity or simply to ponder the vicissitudes of the antiques trade?” Is
there anything hotter than a gorgeous action hero who can suavely deliver a
line like that?
As for Immies who can sense pre-immies, I think it must have been a
universal ability. Maybe it's like sense of smell--some people just have a
better one but very few have none at all. Kronos sensed Cassie was a
pre-immie in her village--that's why he brought her body back to the
Horsemen's camp. In Reasonable Doubt, Immie Tarsis grabbed pre-immie Kagan
as a kid, making him steal things & delivering a 1st death several years
later. In Little Tin God, Larca killed Derek the 1st time, in order to make
him an Immie acolyte; he seemed to do that habitually, thus collecting his
flock of new Immies. Rebecca sensed Amanda as she was dying the 1st time,
in Legacy. Connor sensed Richie. Xavier sensed Morgan while still dead in
his coffin, in Double Jeopardy. DM sensed Cahill running per Paris traffic,
as he was dying his 1st death in Avenging Angel. DM seemed to sense Johnny
Kelly before his 1st death, in Glory Days. DM sensed Marek, as he was dying
the 1st time in Black Tower. There, DM mentions that Connor had said he'd
sense those who'd become immortal, but he hadn't immediately recognized his
first--Marek. Marek--"What you sensed was greatness." DM--"What I sensed,
you pompous ass, was immortality." That pretty much settles it, I think.
Apparently, most Immies just weren't that interested in people who might
some day become Immies & largely ignored them.
Nina (and, people, unless it goes boom--it's "canon")
mac.westie@verizon.net
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 17:05:22 -0400
From: kageorge <kageorge@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Immie sensitivity (was--Re: Chivalry)
This is an official "me, too" post. I completely agree with all the points
made with regard to Felicia, what she was doing, why she did it, the casting
of Joan Jett, the map, her admitting she forged the map, etc., etc..
>
> Apparently, most Immies just weren't that interested in people who might
> some day become Immies & largely ignored them.
>
I think that's the bottom line on why we don't see Immortals hunting
pre-Immies. Possibly the Q is so puny as to not be worth the effort of
disposing of the body afterwards.
MacG
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 17:12:48 -0400
From: kageorge <kageorge@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Chivalry
From: "Fred Versch" <TecnoGypsy@aol.com>
Then again, there were the two Episodes (Free Fall and The Road Not Taken)
where all immortals were linked and lock together forever. Which I'm all
sure that cannon line died
>
> Just have to watch Free Fall again tonight right after the Thirteenth
Warrior.
Thirteenth Warrior? Gah. A movie without a plot, although Antonio Banderas
is easy on the eyes.
As far as "linked and locked together for all time" goes, I don't remember
anything in Free Fall about that. Are you implying that from Felicia's
blather about being "drawn" to the store? I am certain she just threw that
in to convince DM that she was a newbie.
Now as for "The Road Not Taken", like Nina, I think that was just bad
writing in the first season when they were still trying to figure out what
the rules of the road were. However, because it *is* canon (no blowing
things up, please), you have to find some kind of explanation for it. Maybe
Duncan and Luke had a double quickening or something - some off-screen event
that caused Duncan to sense Luke's death. I dunno, but that notion is more
consistent with canon than the "linked forever" notion, which is patently
*not* true or consistent with the rest of the events on the series.
MacG
(that's "Ms. MacG", by the way)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 17:40:16 -0400
From: Fred Versch <TecnoGypsy@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Immie sensitivity (was--Re: Chivalry)
In a message dated 6/25/2004 4:43:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mac.westie@verizon.net writes:
> I see this as one of many things the episode just got
> wrong, due to it being
> the very 1st script written.
And humbly I bow to The List Powers. I think you all correct but I'm still gonna watch Free Fall tonight.
Sweet weekend all!
~~~Fred~~~
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 17:46:38 EDT
From: Highlandmg@aol.com
Subject: Re: Chivalry
Hi there BRAT #22
What a surprise to see you back and posting. Why not come to chat sometime.
Tuesday-wednsday 10pm-11pm Thursday 10pm-12 its on AOL.
mary
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 17:48:54 -0400
From: Fred Versch <TecnoGypsy@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Chivalry
oops
Ms Mac sorry.
kageorge@erols.com writes:
> I dunno, but that notion is more
> consistent with canon than the "linked forever" notion, which is patently
> *not* true or consistent with the rest of the events on the
> series.
>
> MacG
> (that's "Ms. MacG", by the way)
But That line locked and linked forever is Free Fall too.
Gotta go. Peace ~~~Fred~~~
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 12:04:49 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Immie sensitivity (was--Re: Chivalry)
MacG--
> As far as "linked and locked together for all time" goes, I don't remember
> anything in Free Fall about that.
Yes, DM says it to Felicia early on--DM ("We're linked & locked for all
time.")
Kinda kinky, really. Of course, DM did his share of lying to Felicia (the
katana's origins), so nothing either said can be considered gospel. Or
canon.
> Now as for "The Road Not Taken", like Nina, I think that was just bad
> writing in the first season when they were still trying to figure out what
> the rules of the road were. However, because it *is* canon (no blowing
> things up, please), you have to find some kind of explanation for it.
Maybe
> Duncan and Luke had a double quickening or something - some off-screen
event
> that caused Duncan to sense Luke's death.
Um--Innocent Man, I think you mean? With DM falling to his knees while
walking on the road w/ Tessa, as Lucas Desiree loses his head. Surely, DM
saw, heard or just plain felt the electricity of a distant Quickening. I
see it as DM knowing his friend lived there & rather stupidly jumping to the
conclusion _he_ was the loser in the fight; maybe Lucas was a really crappy
swordsman or had vowed never to take another head.
Nina (Sheriff Crowley's Southern accent was unforgivably bad in this ep,
along w/ the partly-done Civil War painting in his office--especially since
the WCD has Crowley born in 1901 Iowa & it was DESIREE who was the
Southerner)
mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 18:41:40 -0400
From: kageorge <kageorge@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Immie sensitivity (was--Re: Chivalry)
From: "MacWestie" <mac.westie@verizon.net>
> MacG--
> > As far as "linked and locked together for all time" goes, I don't
remember
> > anything in Free Fall about that.
>
> Yes, DM says it to Felicia early on--DM ("We're linked & locked for all
> time.")
> Kinda kinky, really. Of course, DM did his share of lying to Felicia (the
> katana's origins), so nothing either said can be considered gospel. Or
> canon.
Hmm. Or he could mean something more esoteric than a specific psychic
phenomenon. He might mean that the Game, and its inevitable end was what
linked and locked them together. I prefer finding some kind of
justification other than something that is so inconsistent with the other
five years' worth of episodes.
>
>
> > Now as for "The Road Not Taken", like Nina, I think that was just bad
> > writing in the first season when they were still trying to figure out
what
> > the rules of the road were. However, because it *is* canon (no blowing
> > things up, please), you have to find some kind of explanation for it.
> Maybe
> > Duncan and Luke had a double quickening or something - some off-screen
> event
> > that caused Duncan to sense Luke's death.
>
> Um--Innocent Man, I think you mean? With DM falling to his knees while
> walking on the road w/ Tessa, as Lucas Desiree loses his head. Surely, DM
> saw, heard or just plain felt the electricity of a distant Quickening. I
> see it as DM knowing his friend lived there & rather stupidly jumping to
the
> conclusion _he_ was the loser in the fight; maybe Lucas was a really
crappy
> swordsman or had vowed never to take another head.
Oops. My bad. Yes, that's the one I meant.
MacG
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 24 Jun 2004 to 25 Jun 2004 (#2004-119)
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