There are 13 messages totalling 693 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. ReBill Panzer passes away (5) 2. UNSUBSCRIBE 3. Blood Ties tv series? (no HL) & FK Alumni (2) 4. HL and FK (was Re: Blood Ties tv series?) (3) 5. HL and FK (was Re: Blood Ties tv series?) Posting With Permission (2) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 07:59:21 -0000 From: John Mosby - Laptop <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com> Subject: ReBill Panzer passes away I've just received the news that Bill Panzer has died in Los Angeles. The information comes direct from Carmel Macpherson and has been confirmed by David Abramowitz and Adrian Paul. Carmel or I will add further information in the next few hours and Adrian will posting a statement on his official website: www.adrianpaul.net very shortly. John. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:56:05 -0500 From: Rick King <Rick.King@tlc.state.tx.us> Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE -----Original Message----- From: Highlander movies and TV series [mailto:HIGHLA-L@lists.psu.edu] On Behalf Of HIGHLA-L automatic digest system Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 9:00 PM To: HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU Subject: HIGHLA-L Digest - 12 Mar 2007 to 18 Mar 2007 (#2007-31) There is 1 message totalling 52 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Blood Ties tv series? (no HL) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 20:04:28 -0400 From: Heidi <heidi@bronze.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Blood Ties tv series? (no HL) From: Barb Stewart <watchone@SBCGLOBAL.NET> I only recall it being very well written with good characterisation. [..] I'd call it more HL/Forever Knight than Sci Fi. That's good to hear. Based on the first episode and the preview for the second, it does look like they could turn it into a `supernatural creature of the week' show. It's too early to tell, but I'd rather it not become that. It also makes it even harder to believe that all these odd things are going on but no one else knows about it. From: "rideo@juno.com" <rideo@juno.com> [..] During some investigation she meets Henry FitzRoy, a romance novelist and vampire and becomes aware of the supernatural world. I think in the show they said he wrote comic books. I wasn't paying close attention though so I don't know if they switched his type of writing for the series, or if he does both in it. Tony may just become another Richie, not that I didn't love Richie, there only for getting into trouble he needs to be rescued from, or maybe they'll eliminate him altogether [..] In fact Tanya Huff started a new series centered around Tony. I've seen a few comments from people who have said that Tayna Huff said Tony won't be in the tv series because of the book series about his character. I don't know what the source of their info was. Thanks for mentioning this Heidi, I wouldn't have known about it otherwise. And for another vampire series coming to tv, Charlaine Harris' Sookie Stackhouse books are being made into an HBO series. Given the overlap of HL and FK fans here I thought people might be interested in the show if they hadn't already heard about it. I've never heard of CHarris, but don't have HBO anyway. As for Blood Ties, I guess I'd say it was ok. The first episode was a bit too predictable and other people seem to be saying the same thing. The bad guys also seemed more cartoonish then scary, sortof like Slan in The Gathering. Pilot episodes are sometimes a bit iffy since they have to set up the premise and characters so I figure I'll probably give it a few episodes to see what it's like. To everyone who answered my questions about it, thanks. =}{= (heidi@bronze.lcs.mit.edu) ----------------------------- End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 12 Mar 2007 to 18 Mar 2007 (#2007-31) ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:46:59 EDT From: Billie Lee Williams <McCelt2003@aol.com> Subject: Re: Blood Ties tv series? (no HL) & FK Alumni In a message dated 3/18/2007 5:07:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, heidi@BRONZE.LCS.MIT.EDU writes: <<Given the overlap of HL and FK fans>> OK, Let's See (serious effort to keep this ON Topic) In (early) Season Two of Highlander: Ger appeared in the episode of Highlander "Turnabout" (yeah, Big News, BL), playing a dual role as a "Good Immie "Michael" who had a (I am using a psychiatrically inappropriate term here) "split personality," the other part of which/whom was a "Bad Immmie" (AKA K'Immie")--at which point my brain has gone on vacation, as I cannot remember the name of the K'Immie (oh dear). And a very fine job GWD did, too! Too bad his character had to.........well, in case you have not seen it, I won't say :) (Oh, the appropriate Psych term is DID: Dissociative Identity Disorder, formerly known as MPD, Multiple Personality Disorder--I swear they, 1) rename things, and 2) redo the categories every so often just to make us buy new DSM's, LOL!!--and I am really sure everybody wanted to know all that <g>). Newsflash from the Highlander Board(s) a very short time ago: Bill Panzer died this morning in Los Angeles. Confirmed by several sources, including Adrian Paul, who is about to post a statement to his website. Sad, very sad :( Maybe everybody didn't like the way things were going in the franchise; still it is sad, and very possibly the end of the era. I have always felt, and quietly said that Sony/Tri-Star, etc. could take a few lessons from Panzer/Davis and company in *marketing.* Especially after what I read what McLisa wrote the other day about the demise of Forever Knight as it was up against Highlander in the end of things. Made me angry! I don't mean that FK should have gone all wacky, call up every fan and try to sell them *everything* all the time, no. Still, they could have done a lot better, and, I believe, had/have a strong enough fan base! Still sad, though. May mess up the "finished" release of HL:5 The Russian one is NOT Illegal, just have to have a Region Free player--easy to accomplish (ask me off list, I can help). Seriously, though, I have always been impacted by GWD's performance in the episode "Turnabout." There has also been some discussion lately on the "Lucard" list, as the "D:TS" DVD's seem to have resurfaced again. MY GOODNESS was he funny in that, as was Geordi Johnson, also FK Alumni :-D Forever Yours, Billie-Lee Billie-Lee Williams, RN, Ph.D. "Oh, Divine Master grant that I may never seek, not so much to be consoled as to console, not so much to be understood as to understand, to be loved as to love with all my heart. Amen." Saint Francis; "Jesus take the wheel, take it from my hands, 'cause I can't do this all on my own" (Carrie Underwood) ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:01:33 EDT From: Billie Lee Williams <McCelt2003@aol.com> Subject: Re: Blood Ties tv series? (no HL) & FK Alumni YIKES, I meant to send that to the FK List, So sorry!! Forever Yours, Billie-Lee ::::::::::::::embarassed grin:::::::::::: Billie-Lee Williams, RN, Ph.D. "Oh, Divine Master grant that I may never seek, not so much to be consoled as to console, not so much to be understood as to understand, to be loved as to love with all my heart. Amen." Saint Francis; "Jesus take the wheel, take it from my hands, 'cause I can't do this all on my own" (Carrie Underwood) ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 13:17:08 -0400 From: Heidi <heidi@bronze.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: Re: HL and FK (was Re: Blood Ties tv series?) From: Billie Lee Williams <McCelt2003@aol.com> Subject: Re: Blood Ties tv series? (no HL) & FK Alumni YIKES, I meant to send that to the FK List, So sorry!! Since you were replying to and quoting something I sent to the HL list (and including my email address) why would you send your reply to the FK list? As far as I know one of the highla-l list rules is things posted to the list should not posted elsewhere without asking the original poster. In (early) Season Two of Highlander: Ger appeared in the episode of Highlander "Turnabout" [..] personality," the other part of which/whom was a "Bad Immmie" (AKA K'Immie")--at which point my brain has gone on vacation, as I cannot remember the name of the K'Immie Quentin Barnes I think. I don't remember it being a particularlly good episode so it's been a long time since I've watched it, so I may be mixing up character names. Some parts were ok but I remember some of the Michael/Quentin bit coming off a bit silly. Maybe I should go back and rewatch it at some point. Especially after what I read what McLisa wrote the other day about the demise of Forever Knight as it was up against Highlander in the end of things. How were HL and FK up against each other? Since HL aired different days/ times in different cities I don't think you mean `against each other' as far as most people could only watch one. So am curious about that. I vaguely remember something about that before either show was cast, either AP auditioned for FK or that GWD had auditioned for HL. Does someone here remember which it was? I may still have the interview somewhere but am not sure. -H. (heidi@bronze.lcs.mit.edu) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 13:56:06 EDT From: Billie Lee Williams <McCelt2003@aol.com> Subject: Re: HL and FK (was Re: Blood Ties tv series?) In a message dated 3/19/2007 10:24:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, heidi@BRONZE.LCS.MIT.EDU writes: Me: Subject: Re: Blood Ties tv series? (no HL) & FK Alumni YIKES, I meant to send that to the FK List, So sorry!! Heidi: Since you were replying to and quoting something I sent to the HL list (and including my email address) Actually, when I fixed it, I took out, as I should have, in the first place, your email address, Heidi. So, in one * small * way, it is good I made a mistake the first time around, since I never meant to leave your email address in it. <<why would you send your reply to the FK list? As far as I know one of the highla-l list rules is things posted to the list should not posted elsewhere without asking the original poster.>> I only wanted the one line about there being fans about both shows, but yes, point taken; I apologize. I won't do it again. What really happened is I *thought* I was reading an FK post; I was not. I can only blame lack of sleep and some other things you likely don't want to know about. I hereby promise to check the "TO" line before hitting send, henceforth. <<Quentin Barnes I think. I don't remember it being a particularlly good episode so it's been a long time since I've watched it, so I may be mixing up character names. Some parts were ok but I remember some of the Michael/Quentin bit coming off a bit silly. Maybe I should go back and rewatch it at some point.>> Actually, you are correct, it was Quentin Barnes. I liked it---but then I am rather huge a GWD fan. Me: Especially after what I read what McLisa wrote the other day about the demise of Forever Knight as it was up against Highlander in the end of things. (McLisa is FK Listmom; since there are likely many folks on both lists, many will know this, but, then, many will not). Heidi: How were HL and FK up against each other? Since HL aired different days/times in different cities I don't think you mean `against each other ' as far as most people could only watch one. So am curious about that. I vaguely remember something about that before either show was cast, either AP auditioned for FK or that GWD had auditioned for HL. Does someone here remember which it was? I may still have the interview somewhere but am not sure. It doesn't (or, rather, didn't) have anything to do with time slots, who was auditioning for what, or anything like that. Since I made the GRAVE error of thinking I was writing to the other List, I (and, thought I was) speaking to something that was already "known." It is not some huge State Secret, but since...,well, it is kind of like you said earlier about stuff from one List to another. I cannot answer it without McLisa's permission. I will ask her if you really want me to? I really did not mean to make a mess, use a piece of a post elsewhere without permission, etc. As I said, I was tired, and thought I was reading something else. When I "rewrote it, I took out Heidi's email address. but I did use that one line about fans of both FK/HL. I won't do it again. Apologies again for my gaffe(s). Forever Yours, Billie-Lee (who has run Spell Check 3 times now..........) ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:33:55 -0400 From: Bschep@aol.com Subject: Re: ReBill Panzer passes away OH wow.... What happened? What he ill? ------------------------- Babs ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:49:25 EDT From: Billie Lee Williams <McCelt2003@aol.com> Subject: Re: HL and FK (was Re: Blood Ties tv series?) Posting With Permission In Response to my mistaken post this morning, Heidi asked: How were HL and FK up against each other? Since HL aired different days/times in different cities I don't think you mean `against each other ' as far as most people could only watch one. So am curious about that. I vaguely remember something about that before either show was cast, either AP auditioned for FK or that GWD had auditioned for HL. Does someone here remember which it was? I may still have the interview somewhere but am not sure. I have since written to the Listowner (well, one of two) of the Forever Knight Discussion List, and have permission to quote her post from a short while ago (bit longer than I thought, but not that long--we were discussing "The Longevity of Vampire Shows on TV," with Blood Ties as a Tie-in" McLisa would like me to add that, and I completely & wholeheartedly agree, (regarding her information): *****"What happened in no way reflects badly on the Highlander cast, staff or producers. It was the business types, AKA the suits who are at fault, and I don't want anyone blamed who shouldn't be."***** Now, I think that about covers what she asked in her giving me permission to share her post, so, here it is--I am sure folks will have *plenty* to say about it, one way or the other :-D Begin Quote From Forever Knight Listowner (McLisa) With Permission: Someone asked if low ratings were the reason for the cancellation of FK in its final season. No, actually it was cancelled by USA, who pulled their investment out, because the production company for Highlander made doing so a condition of USA's getting Highlander in repeats. I know this for a fact. When it happened I was sworn to secrecy by my source. FK was running against Highlander in a lot of markets and was making inroads. So USA caved. The only reason we got the full season was because the German production company insisted on the fulfillment of their contract. Notice how suddenly the script quality went back up? That was because USA no longer was trying to dumb it down so FK's own people were back in control. For example, we no longer had things like LC running a strip contest with that cheesy speech about getting in touch with oneself by getting naked. Nigel Bennett tried to quit over that one, btw. He told me so himself at a later convention. I am glad he didn't,! but I couldn't have blamed him if he had. The irony, for those of us who knew what really happened, was the suggestion that that same company should be approached about taking over and producing FK! At the time we couldn't say anything. I finally told the list several years later when the rumor got going that it was the fault of Aaron Spelling, on behalf of Kindred: the Embraced. Nope, A.S. had nothing to do with it. We heard later, after the fans' third season campaign and the listmembers who went to the Las Vegas convention where syndicated shows are sold to local stations and programmers, that if FK had been a show on one of the big three networks (this was before Fox), it would definitely have been saved. We also know now that USA had planned to push FK hard, just before Highlander's producers got into the act. Ger had been supposed to come and do several days of personal appearances in Las Vegas, and there was going to be lots of FK merchandise there. The FK mugs are a good example. McLisa End Quote So, there you go. Hope it answers the question I wound up sticking out there. There are far more interesting (and sad) things happening in the HL world today, but, I didn't want to just leave it hanging out there, esp. since I was the one who did the "hanging" in the first place with my error! Forever Yours, Billie-Lee (who maintains the HL Franchise knows how to *market* better--just think about all those wacky, often unwanted phone calls you get....) ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:08:54 -0500 From: kageorge <kageorge1@verizon.net> Subject: Re: ReBill Panzer passes away Bschep@aol.com wrote: >OH wow.... What happened? What he ill? > > >------------------------- >Babs > > > Carmel MacPherson posted the following (taken from another list, but I assume it was intended to be passed along): This morning my phone rang and it was David Abramowitz. I could tell from his voice that something was very wrong. He was very upset and told me something that I never expected to hear - that Bill Panzer was dead. All the usual questions poured out - how, when...was he sure? Bill died in the typically theatrical way that I would have expected of him. He had decided to go ice skating - at 62! He was a man who lived by his own rules and where in the rule book did it say that 62 year olds shouldn't ice skate. Unfortunately he fell- heavily - and hit his head. Whilst he seemed to recover, the damage had been done and the result was a brain haemorrhage from which he failed to recover. Bill was one of those people who was larger than life and we will be the poorer for the loss of his energy and his love of the Highlander franchise and fandom. No matter how busy he was he always made time for me whenever I was in town - and that wasn't about me. It was about Bill respecting and acknowledging, through me, the fan base that has been so loyal to the vision than Bill and Peter turned into Highlander. I would always be shepherded into the enormous Borders style office and plonked on the couch while he enthusiastically showed me a snippet of whatever his latest idea was. In Bucharest during the filming of EndGame I had the very great pleasure of spending many hours with him as we travelled out to the set of EndGame, discussing love, life and the whole darn thing. He was a very erudite and cultured man with a wicked wit. I always joked with him that he was the Great Gatsby. I even sent him some F Scott Fitzgerald to read on plane trips. Together we tripped through the huge abandoned building that had been Kel's loft as he showed me the various sets. On the actual Glenfinnan village set he cautioned me to be quiet and lie low....only to then witness me do a dramatic fall face first into the slimy mud that made up Glenfinnan village....and then laugh at me all the way back into Bucharest as I sat in the Mercedes with mud and straw all over me.... He was always thinking of some new approach for Highlander. Yes, he knew that as fans we didn't always like his choices - and he always listened. He was delighted to be able to come to HLWW7 in Leeds. I sent him and David and Peter Wingfield all off like a troupe of excited schoolchildren to see the London production of Billy Elliott and of course now I am even more thankful that these three got to spend that time together. David has been a close friend of Bill's for over 17 years. He had lunch with him last week and could only talk of how full of life Bill was and how, despite their volatile relationship, how much he cared for him personally and what a vacuum Bill's passing will leave. I used to liken the Adrian, Bill, David relationship to the Jagger:Richards one. You just can't have that much passion and drive and creativity without sparks flying... He arrived in Leeds in typical Bill fashion - on the train, black beret nattily perched on his silver hair...coat flowing out behind him....old fashioned leather satchel crammed full of papers and books. He could only stay in Leeds for a few hours on the Saturday but was determined to come and keep faith with the fans. Our last few emails were me telling him how he needed to improve The Source (!) and sending him selected constructive advisings from fans. What touched him was that the fans cared that deeply. As fans we may not always have liked his creative choices - but as fans we are privileged indeed because the man who brought Highlander to the screen for us had a passion and a drive and an entrepreneurial spirit that just wouldn't take no for an answer. He respected fans and was deeply thankful for our loyalty and determination to never let Highlander die. At the end of every Convention, Bill always raised a glass and said, in tribute to fans: "Without all of you there would be none of us..." - and even when he wasn't at a Convention, Peter or David or Adrian would repeat Bill's tribute. So Bill, thank you for the richness of the Highlander universe, and the many friendships that have been forged as a result of our collective shared love of Highlander. Fans have gone to places they would never have travelled to; supported each other through the trials, tribulations and joys of everyday life, discussed the ethically perplexing questions that Connor's and Duncan's existence brought to center-stage. Lives have been lived in different ways because of your vision. It is fitting that we now toast you and your passing. We wish for you what Adrian has so aptly wished you: "May the winds be with you." I am going to miss you very much. Carmel Macpherson President Highlander WorldWide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:51:05 -0400 From: Wendy <jjswbt@cox.net> Subject: Re: ReBill Panzer passes away Babs: > OH wow.... What happened? What he ill? Rumor has it he was ice skating, fell, hit his head and eventually died of a cerebral hemorrhage. I didn't know Bill Panzer personally, wasn't too fond of what I heard of him, and hated what he did with Highlander in later years. However, I guess I didn't wish him dead. (There are people I wish were dead. )( I keep a list) I am given to wondering what the franchise might have been like without his heavy-handed involvement. Non-existent? So much better? No way to tell. R.I.P. Wendy (Will they tack a Panzer montage onto The Source?)(A death montage is traditional.)(Of course, The Source can be looked at as death montage for HL)(Panzer and HL going out together, so to speak)(Seems fitting, I guess) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:14:44 -0500 From: kageorge <kageorge1@verizon.net> Subject: Re: ReBill Panzer passes away Wendy wrote: >Babs: > > >>OH wow.... What happened? What he ill? >> >> > >Rumor has it he was ice skating, fell, hit his head and eventually died >of a cerebral hemorrhage. > >I didn't know Bill Panzer personally, wasn't too fond of what I heard of >him, and hated what he did with Highlander in later years. However, I >guess I didn't wish him dead. (There are people I wish were dead. )( I >keep a list) I am given to wondering what the franchise might have been >like without his heavy-handed involvement. Non-existent? So much >better? No way to tell. > > I certainly disagreed with a lot of the decisions Bill P. made, especially in HL's later years, but it would only be fair to remember that Bill Panzer, in one way or another, was responsible for virtually all of what was good about Highlander, as well as what was bad. We would simply in all probability never have had Highlander at all had it not been for him, so while you "didn't wish him dead", it might be nice (although I hardly expect THAT) to recognize his contributions. Oddly, he genuinely cared about the Highlander franchise, above and beyond the not-insubstantial money it made for him over the years. It's actually possible to respect someone and wish them (and their loved ones) well, even if you don't approve of everything they did. MacGeorge ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:20:05 EDT From: Billie Lee Williams <McCelt2003@aol.com> Subject: Re: HL and FK (was Re: Blood Ties tv series?) Posting With Permission One more answer to Heidi's query, although, I may be out of posts for today--and I am usually (& will VERY likely go back to being) a tremendous lurker: I vaguely remember something about that before either show was cast, either AP auditioned for FK or that GWD had auditioned for HL. Does someone here remember which it was? I may still have the interview somewhere but am not sure. (and there was more about the shows being "up against one another") Actually, where I live, (Santa Clara, California) both shows were in syndication at the time, and *AT* the same time(s). The only reason I remember it so well, is that I had only one VCR back then, and was flummoxed as to how to record *both.* FK Listmom asked me to further clarify: "Both shows were in syndication at the time in the U.S. In quite a few cities, yes, the syndicated shows were up against each other in the second and third seasons. In the first half of the 3rd season in the US, FK was in first runs both on USA and in syndication. This is most unusual. I don't think I've ever encountered it since. I don't know if the same was ever true of Highlander." As far as who auditioned for which role--I don't know; although I heard both actors were contenders for both roles (which would mean both auditioned for both, or would it? <g>); so I am absolutely no help there. On a completely different topic, and the very sad news of Bill Panzer's passing, do you suppose this will have any impact on the "We're Not Finished" status of "Highlander: The Source." While I realized they are not going to redo the entire film *sigh,* (no spoilers) it would sure be nice to have a, well, __expanded__ ending, shall we say. Regardless of the many grumbles and moans and along with the many positive things, I am certain Mr. Panzer will be dearly missed. On that note, Have a great evening. Billie-Lee ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 20:23:55 -0400 From: Heidi <heidi@bronze.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: Re: HL and FK (was Re: Blood Ties tv series?) From: Billie Lee Williams <McCelt2003@aol.com> I only wanted the one line about there being fans about both shows, but yes, point taken; I apologize. I won't do it again. Not a big deal. I was mostly confused by it and wondering if things here were landing other places which wouldn't be good. I remember back when HL was still airing someone on the list said they were going take any episode reviews they liked and put them on a web site without asking the poster first. That idea was quickly stomped. It doesn't (or, rather, didn't) have anything to do with time slots, who was auditioning for what, or anything like that. The auditioning bit was an unrelated comment since it was about casting before either show had started filming. Your comment about a connection between the shows reminded me of it and I figured someone here might remember more about it. I may still have the magazine interview where it was mentioned so should dig it up. Billie-Lee (who maintains the HL Franchise knows how to *market* better --just think about all those wacky, often unwanted phone calls you get While the calls from the HL Store are amusing at best, HL does know how to put a DVD set together much better then FK which had almost no extras. As for why FK may have ended, it's interesting if accurate but I don't remember much about what was going on with the shows when USA started rerunning HL (and is long enough ago that probably doesn't matter to most people at this point). Awhile ago I had mentioned to someone here that I didn't think the third season of FK was as bad as alot of other people said. After I got the S3 DVD set and started watching them again, I take back that statement. There were some good episodes, but a fair bit of bad ones especially later in the season. Will answer the rest off list since it's not HL related. (but does include some silly things about one of the other shows you mentioned that I think we've talked about before.) -H. (heidi@bronze.lcs.mit.edu) ------------------------------ End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 18 Mar 2007 to 19 Mar 2007 (#2007-32) **************************************************************