HIGHLA-L Digest - 12 Aug 2004 to 13 Aug 2004 (#2004-147)

      Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@lists.psu.edu)
      Fri, 13 Aug 2004 22:00:06 -0400

      • Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]
      • Next message: Automatic digest processor: "HIGHLA-L Digest - 13 Aug 2004 to 14 Aug 2004 (#2004-148)"
      • Previous message: Automatic digest processor: "HIGHLA-L Digest - 11 Aug 2004 to 12 Aug 2004 (#2004-146)"

      --------
      There are 3 messages totalling 395 lines in this issue.
      
      Topics of the day:
      
        1. Season Four dvd Commentary:  Through a Glass, Darkly
        2. Q-Chips (was: The Immortal Cimoli)
        3. HL Moment
      
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      
      Date:    Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:08:19 -0400
      From:    kageorge <kageorge@erols.com>
      Subject: Season Four dvd Commentary:  Through a Glass, Darkly
      
      Html version w/screen captures can be found at:
      http://www.wordsmiths.net/MacGeorge/episodes/Season4/GlassDarkly.htm
      
      COMMENTARY: David A. says that it would have been okay if some executive
      had said to him, “Are you insane?” This episode was a clear ripoff of
      “Roshomon” (for those who don’t know, “Roshomon” is a classic Kurosawa
      film which shows a series of events from each person’s point of view,
      with each of them remembering it differently) and was hit and miss.
      David says he’s no Kurosawa and while the director was good, this was an
      episode that didn’t realize its potential, and that they “outsmarted
      ourselves a little bit” by trying to do something that was really
      different. He says it worked “pretty well”, but the villain wasn’t
      really the villain, it was a psychological drama, and he wasn’t sure it
      fit into what Highlander was at its core. It was intellectually
      interesting but as an episode, it “didn’t pace or pop like I wished it
      would.” He also says that he was getting notes from lots of different
      producers in different countries, and there was some concern that by
      showing the backstory from different perspectives, they would lose the
      audience. In retrospect, he says he would have worked to both write it
      more clearly and work with the director to make the story lines a little
      clearer.
      
      Gillian also notes that this is a “Roshomon” story. She says it also
      throws doubt on every flashback in the series, so you have to wonder
      whether we might be seeing events through “Duncan-colored glasses.” She
      says the episode came out a lot darker than they originally envisioned
      it. They liked the idea of an immortal who had gone through a terrible
      trauma and was in denial about his own immortality. It made a nice
      opening to explore the idea of whether or not you would want to be
      immortal, and whether would there be a temptation to not want to
      remember all the terrible tragedies that happened.
      
      She also says that one of the reasons they did the flashbacks they way
      they did was, in theory, to save a little bit of money, if the
      flashbacks were filmed twice slightly differently, you could have one
      set, one location, one camera set up, and get twice as much footage. She
      says that the plot with Cochrane and his student got too convoluted and
      too complicated, so that some of the issues they really wished they
      could have been explored “weren’t as fully realized as they could have
      been.”
      
      Bill P. asks the question, “Can an Immortal get therapy?” He posits that
      they might, but it takes so long for even mortals to peel away all the
      layers that cover what we are, it probably takes longer, or an Immortal
      therapist to do that, and that’s sort of what MacLeod is doing in this
      episode.
      
      OUTTAKES: We see the opening scene when Peter steps out into the (very)
      foggy snowy morning. There is one initial miscue that causes some
      laughter, and then PW and AP go through the scene very nicely until they
      feel the “buzz” of another Immortal. Duncan goes off down the path and
      after he explains he’s “Just looking”, Methos chases after him, calling
      “Duncan!” Then he catches up to him, saying, “It’s just a couple of guys
      with smoke machines!” then there’s a bloodcurdling yell that sounds like
      they are attacking the guys with the smoke machines, but we can’t see
      what’s going on.
      
      We see a couple of deleted scenes between Methos and Duncan, the first
      on the stairs when Duncan goes to find the mystery Immortal, and Methos
      tells Duncan he’s going to wait outside. Then, after Duncan first meets
      Cochrane, Methos joins him outside and tells him that it all may have
      been an act by Cochrane to throw Duncan off his guard, and that Duncan
      ought to be more paranoid.
      
      “You don’t trust anybody, do you?” Duncan demands.
      
      “No. I find it safer to make a habit of it,” Methos answers, then after
      a small pause, adds, “Present company excepted.”
      
      Then we see F. Braun McAsh’s stint as the innkeeper in the flashback. In
      the unaired scene, Cochrane tells the innkeeper that he and Duncan are
      to meet a gentleman there named, “Charles.”
      
      “Some gentleman!” the innkeeper says derisively, and Cochrane puts a
      dagger to his throat.
      
      “That’s right, he is a gentleman!” Cochran insists, and tells the
      innkeeper to say it again with greater respect. Duncan advises the
      innkeeper to do as Cochrane demands, so he does.
      
      NOTE: The Watcher who witnessed the events wrote: “This was the great
      hope of the Scots? This drunken dissipate? My God, no wonder the Scots
      lost. I’d sooner entrust fighting men to yon innkeeper than that
      dissolute simpleton who can barely remember his own name. Luckily,
      MacLeod’s wits are not nearly as clouded as this man he once called
      Prince, and he is putting any thoughts of sounding the call to fight at
      his side well away.”
      
      THE EPISODE: This episode takes place shortly after Alexa’s death, and
      Duncan and Methos are visiting her gravesite. As they leave they feel
      another Immortal and MacLeod goes looking, and in some underground vault
      sees a moving figure and draws his sword. The man screams at him to stay
      away and Duncan (in a flashback) recognizes the man as a friend from his
      past, Warren Cochran, a fellow Scot who had fought with him against the
      English in the rebellion in the mid-1700's. The flashbacks show a strong
      bond of warrior-friendship between Duncan and Warren. Warren seems more
      enamored of the fighting than Duncan, who is weary of it, and who is
      doubtful of “Prince Charlie’s” tactics, while Warren refuses to question
      the wisdom of his actions.
      
      Duncan is stopped by the police (and grimly he instructs Methos,
      “Leave,” as they arrive, and Methos slips away). [NOTE: Why didn’t they
      have Duncan hand Methos his katana, since he knew he was getting picked
      up by the police? And since the police were questioning him about
      threatening a man with a sword, wouldn’t they have found it?]
      
      Turns out Warren doesn’t remember who he is, and the police are
      convinced he’s “confused”. Duncan speaks to him. Cochrane initially
      denies knowing him, and is clearly in pain, and we get another flashback
      to where Cochrane was killed in front of the rest of the men, but
      because of that, can no longer fight with them. [NOTE: Cochrane only
      revives when Duncan pulls the dagger out of his chest.] Duncan tells
      Warren that he’ll fight with Prince Charlie to the death, but they have
      been outmaneuvered and are outnumbered. “He may be the one true prince
      and the man that Scotland needs to believe in, but he’s not the man to
      lead us in war.”
      
      Warren hits him and calls him a disloyal bastard, but Duncan threatens
      him with the dagger, saying that no man can call him that. Warren
      apologies, acknowledges that they are the best of friends, and asks for
      Duncan’s forgiveness. Duncan looks mollified, but then backhands him
      hard and says, “This time.”
      
      When Warren realizes that his public death means he cannot fight in the
      final battle (Culloden), he is heartbroken, and the two men embrace as
      brothers and fellow warriors. “Bring us glory on Culloden Moor,
      MacLeod!” Warren calls as Duncan walks away (NOTE: Actually, it was
      called Drumossie Moor, and was an ignominious defeat for the Scots.).
      “You will not lose! You Cannot Lose!”
      
      In the present, Duncan gently reminds Warren of some of the good times
      they had in Scotland, and he responds, acknowledging a few of those
      memories, but when Duncan tries to get Warren to remember more recent
      events, all he gets are snatches of conversations and scenes between
      Warren and Andrew, his student. We later learn that Warren had taken his
      student to an inn in Normandie, tried to enlist him in his ongoing
      obsession with freeing Scotland from English rule, and Andrew defied him
      and insulted him. In a moment of blind rage, Warren takes his student’s
      head, but the horror of what he had done overwhelmed him and he now
      refuses to what he had done or even his own Immortality.
      
      Initially, however, it is not at all clear to Duncan what was going on,
      and Warren’s mortal wife arrives just as he is about to question him
      more closely, so the interview is cut short.
      
      Duncan finds Methos in the basement of Shakespeare and Company (Methos:
      “I’m down here in the cellar, there’s a fake wall on your right!”) where
      he is hanging up pages of an ancient cookbook that had gotten wet in the
      flood. Duncan tells Methos about Cochrane, and he agrees that since the
      problem can’t be physical, he must have had “one hell of an emotional
      shock.” It takes some persuasion, but Methos reluctantly agrees to get
      Watcher information on Cochrane.
      
      Methos suggests that maybe it’s a blessing to start fresh, with no memories.
      
      “Until someone comes and takes your head,” Duncan responds grimly.
      
      Cochrane, in the meantime, is plagued with strange vision/memories and
      his wife is no help, since she doesn’t know about his past.
      
      Duncan meets Methos in a snowy street, and Methos advises Duncan to walk
      away from his friend. Duncan notes that not knowing who and what he is
      makes Cochrane a danger to all of them. “So lure him outside and take
      his head,” Methos says grimly. “Problem solved.”
      
      “You know, I never know when you’re kidding,” Duncan protests.
      
      “Part of my charm.”
      
      Methos gives shows Duncan the file for Cochrane, and when Methos denies
      having access to more information, Duncan starts dropping the pages in
      the snow. Methos yells and grabs at them, agreeing under duress to find
      out more. “Boy Scout,” Methos mutters under his breath in irritation.
      
      Duncan tells Warren about his immortality, but Warren doesn’t believe
      him and they argue until finally Duncan deliberately stabs Warren
      through the hand, showing him how he heals. A flashback takes us to
      France in 1776. Warren has a wife and an adopted son. He is there to
      meet with Prince Charlie, still convinced that, with the Prince as a
      leader, he could raise 10,000 men to march to war again against England.
      Duncan meets him there, and he’s angry they are traveling so openly and
      feels Warren has put his family in danger, and they should be sent back
      to England.
      
      They are attacked, and while Duncan suggests they try to slip away,
      Warren refuses to miss the opportunity to meet Charlie, and tries to
      take them on. Duncan goes after Warren and they kill the two Englishmen
      (quite brutally and casually), but return to find Warren’s wife and
      adopted son are dead.
      
      In the present, Warren can’t deal with much more, but Duncan reminds him
      of their last meeting with Prince Charlie, in Normandy in 1776. We see
      two different versions of the same scene of Cochrane and MacLeod meeting
      Prince Charlie at an inn, to find out if he would come back to England
      to lead an army again to free Scotland. Warren remembers Charlie as a
      regal prince, who would have supported their cause but for MacLeod’s
      doubts. MacLeod remembers Charlie as a stumbling, money-hungry drunk,
      unable to lead anyone anywhere.
      
      Duncan goes to Methos, who is still rummaging around in the basement of
      the bookstore. Duncan seems really distressed, and Methos notes that he
      is aware that Duncan and Warren have “quite some history.” Duncan tells
      Methos that Cochrane had built up a legend about Prince Charlie in his
      mind, and couldn’t stand to see it destroyed, and that his memories were
      all distorted.
      
      Methos tells Duncan that maybe Cochrane can’t fact the truth, that
      Cochrane went to Normandy with his student, Andrew Donelly, and while
      the Watcher didn’t witness what happened, Donelly has now disappeared.
      Sure enough, when MacLeod goes to Warren’s house, he finds Warren gone,
      and while Duncan is there the police notify the wife that Donelly was
      found in an abandoned inn in Normandy with his head cut off.
      
      Duncan goes to the inn, now long abandoned, which is the same place as
      their fateful meeting with Prince Charlie. He finds Warren there and
      asks what happened, but Warren still doesn’t remember. Duncan pressures
      him, and we get flashes of Andrew throwing insults at Cochrane, saying
      that his life had been for nothing, and that Prince Charlie was a bum.
      Finally, Warren remembers taking Andrew’s head and we see his memory of
      taking the quickening, trying to fight it, not wanting it, screaming in
      denial and pain.
      
      But Duncan is almost equally horrified that Warren would kill his own
      student.
      
      “I know what you’re thinking,” Warren moans, “That only a monster could
      do such a thing!” Then he asks Duncan to kill him. “What thing on earth
      could be more evil than me!” he cries, but Duncan backs away. “You
      should have left it alone, MacLeod. You should have let me forget!”
      
      Duncan says he doesn’t want to fight him, but Cochrane comes at him
      anyway. It is an interesting battle, as both men are carrying
      flashlights in one hand and a sword in the other, so we see shadows and
      movement more than the actual fight. Ultimately, Duncan takes him down,
      and Cochrane asks him to end it, and pleads with him, saying he can’t
      live with what he’d done.
      
      “You’re going to have to,” Duncan insists grimly, and walks away. As he
      does, Warren looks up, and imagines he sees Prince Charlie descending
      the stairs in all his majesty and glory.
      
      In the tag, Duncan is bemoaning what has happened to Cochrane, and
      Duncan still can hardly believe Warren killed his own student, and
      speculates that maybe he should have left Warren alone, left him not
      knowing what a terrible thing he had done.
      
      “We all have things in our past we wish we hadn’t done,” Methos
      responds. “I know I do.”
      
      Duncan asks Methos if he had the chance to forget everything and live
      life for again, if he’d do it.
      
      “No, I wouldn’t,” Methos answers gently. “Who’d remember Alexa then?”
      
      MY COMMENTS: I was quite surprised at all the apologias from Abramowitz.
      While far from perfect, I thought this episode was very interesting and
      emotionally intense. It raised as many questions as it answered, but
      that’s not untypical, and I had no trouble following the storyline,
      which Abramowitz seemed concerned about.
      
      The flashbacks were wonderful, rich in visual and emotional power. The
      battles were full of color and action, and both Cochrane and MacLeod
      looked both very good and very grubby and tired as great warriors
      prepared to do whatever it took to win Scotland’s freedom. Their intense
      bond was well established, as was Cochrane’s obsessive nature, which was
      seen from the very beginning, but only got worse as time went on.
      
      I loved all the scenes between Duncan and Methos. There was a bond
      there, too, but more subtle, based on a cautiously developing mutual
      respect and trust. Duncan both admires and is a bit mystified by Methos,
      and Methos clearly has growing respect for Duncan. While both are a bit
      wary, my sense was that each was very glad to have an Immortal friend
      they could trust and confide in, in ways that no mortal could ever
      understand.
      
      It is interesting to compare Warren and Duncan versus Methos and Duncan.
      In some ways, their friendships are a measure of how Duncan has changed
      over the centuries. The bond of brother/warriors bound by a country and
      a cause, in addition to their shared Immortality, was very strong. How
      rare and welcome it must be to find some respite from the sense of
      isolation of who and what they were with someone who also shared the
      same language and culture and history. In the present, Duncan still
      wants (and probably feels the need for) Immortal friends, but is more
      interested in someone of subtle intellectual gifts. And if anyone ever
      felt isolated, it must be Methos. How very dangerous and how obviously
      tempting it is for him to hang around Duncan, a man who cares so deeply
      and is so involved in the lives of those around him. Fascinating
      relationship.
      
      Frankly, I was amazed that none of the commentators talked about the
      dramatic foreshadowing of Duncan’s killing of Richie, even though that
      event probably hadn’t been contemplated at the time the story was
      originally written. The unbridled horror Duncan felt at the very thought
      of a teacher killing a student was palpable, as was Warren’s
      overwhelming regret and remorse. It seemed as though Duncan’s “allowing”
      Warren to live was at least as much because he felt that Warren should
      have to live with what he had done as a punishment for his act, as it
      was because he didn’t want to kill a friend.
      
      We certainly see the seeds of Duncan’s reaction to Richie’s death in
      what happens to Warren, and one can only wonder if Warren, who has
      always been prone to self-delusion, will have the strength to overcome
      his despair, or whether he will simply seek someone else out to end his
      misery. (Note: The chronicles on the dvd imply that Warren is slowly
      healing, but that the outcome is uncertain.)
      
      MacGeorge
      
       From the Methos Chronicle Entry:
      
      Lenticulam de Castaneis
      
      Marcus Vavius Apicius Vii 2
      Take a new sauce pan, place therein the chestnuts carefully cleaned. Add
      water and a little soda and place on the fire to be cooked. This done,
      crush in the mortar pepper, cumin, coriander seed, mint, rue, laser
      root, and fleabane moistened with vinegar, honey and broth; add vinegar
      to taste and pour this over the cooked chestnuts, add oil and allow to
      boil. When done, crush it in the mortar. Taste to see if something is
      missing and if so, put it in, and at last add green oil. Cook the
      lentils, skim them, add leeks, green coriander; crush coriander seed,
      flea-bane, laser root, mint seed and rue seed moistened with vinegar;
      add honey, broth, vinegar, then oil, stirring until it is done. Add
      chestnuts, sprinkle with pepper and serve.
      
      [Note: I double checked and transcribed it correctly, but this recipe
      makes no sense to me.]
      All episode commentaries at:
      http://www.wordsmiths.net/MacGeorge/episodes/indexframeset.htm
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Thu, 12 Aug 2004 23:25:24 EDT
      From:    Degruy@aol.com
      Subject: Re: Q-Chips (was: The Immortal Cimoli)
      
      And there is my newly-created Q-Chip Theory.
      
      Let the cards fall  where they may.>>
      
      Well thought out and nicely told.
      
      While I admire it, I think you may have way too much free time.
      
      But since I read all the way through it, I guess I am with you there.
      
      Edward  deGruy
      Student of Humanity
      @}----------
      "Rock Against Drugs?  Who  was high when they came up with that one?  That is
      like saying Christians  Against Christ." - Sam Kineson
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Thu, 12 Aug 2004 23:00:05 -0700
      From:    FKMel <sgt_buck_frobisher@yahoo.com>
      Subject: HL Moment
      
      I don't know if anyone gets History Channel
      International but tonight there was a two hour episode
      of "Almanac" about the battles between the Scottish
      clans and the stuff with the English that we saw in
      FUOT and TaGD. There was a Donald MacLeod that spoke,
      and a Duncan but I think it was MacDonald or MacGregor
      not MacLeod. And they showed a map with the location
      of Glen Finnan.
      
      Mel
      
      =====
      The trouble with immortality is that it tends to go on forever-Herb Cain
      NickNatpacker,Knightie,Knight of the Cross;Duncan, Tessa and Joe flags-waver, Dueser,Fan of Buffy and Angel's true and undying love for one another
      http//:groups.yahoo.com/group/thavisionthing-That Vison thing Angel rpg
      
      
      
      __________________________________
      Do you Yahoo!?
      Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
      http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
      
      ------------------------------
      
      End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 12 Aug 2004 to 13 Aug 2004 (#2004-147)
      ***************************************************************
      
      --------

      • Next message: Automatic digest processor: "HIGHLA-L Digest - 13 Aug 2004 to 14 Aug 2004 (#2004-148)"
      • Previous message: Automatic digest processor: "HIGHLA-L Digest - 11 Aug 2004 to 12 Aug 2004 (#2004-146)"