HIGHLA-L Digest - 18 Dec 2003 to 19 Dec 2003 (#2003-32)
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Fri, 19 Dec 2003 22:00:01 -0500
There are 15 messages totalling 656 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Impact 146: NEW Highlanderfor TV confirmed. (12)
2. Season Two: The Darkness
3. :) Impact 146: NEW Highlanderfor TV confirmed. (2)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:26:08 -0800
From: Gregory Mate <gmate@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Impact 146: NEW Highlanderfor TV confirmed.
Let MacWestie holler at you players:
>I really don't care any more, & it's a relief not to be invested
>in HL;
Ah, but every time you post on this list, you *do* invest in the HL
universe, and another piece of your soul is forever tied to the franchise.
>Nina (the HL "TV project" is a miniseries
Hmmm... do I smell an A-list cast on a major network? Can we hope? Rob
Lowe as Quentin MacLeod? Is Mr. Lowe even considered A-list?
....Greg....
gmate@rogers.com
He Who Thanks John Mosby For More Listmail Today Than In The Three Previous
Months
"Took a puck to the head last night."
"Concussive brain injury?"
"Asphyxiation."
"No!"
"Didn't have any teeth to stop the thing."
-- Dead Like Me, episode 3
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 23:02:59 -0500
From: kageorge <kageorge@erols.com>
Subject: Season Two: The Darkness
Commentary: Both Bill Panzer and David Abramowitz commented on this
episode. BP reported that the actress who played Tessa wanted to return
to Belgium, and therefore leave the show. DA said he "felt like a jilted
lover", that she was popular and beautiful and that "they were beautiful
together". The word "heat" was mentioned. <g> He related that he felt
she was a strong actress who had realized that due to the nature of the
show, her role would always be necessarily limited, and she made a
choice to leave in search of a stronger role. They talked about how she
would die, and that to have it come after she had been saved from the
threats that came from being with DM, to be killed by random street
violence was a "shock." BP said it was appropriate that it was a comment
on what happens in real life, that Tessa and Richie were both killed. DA
said it made him really sad to have Tessa die, and that it made the fans
really angry. He said he was glad to have the opportunity to say that it
wasn't really their choice.
The Tracie Lord character, they explained, was based sort of on the
character Whoopie Goldberg played in "Ghost", a pretend psychic who
happens to have real talent. They mentioned that she came out of adult
films, but had a certain vulnerability that really came across.
They talked about the difficulty of creating and filming in the "black
room", it took a lot of time and resulted in them cutting a planned
extended flashback scene where two gypsy women would fight over DM
(instead of, as BP said, "one cranky woman and Duncan).
OUTTAKES: They show Stan practicing getting shot, then the scene where
they film it. The voice-over is by Gillian Horvath, who explains that at
the end of The Darkness scene where Tessa and Richie were shot in the
version shown in the US, it seemed that Richie was truly dead, and it
was only at the end of the episode where Duncan walks up to Richie
outside the store that the audience finds out that Richie was an
Immortal. In the European cut, Richie opens his eyes, so it is clear he
is still alive, or has come *back* to life. In footage that was filmed
(but not aired), he is shown sitting up, looking amazed.
In Paris, the scene was completely recreated for Counterfeit, Part II,
but that recreated footage, which shows Richie coming back to life, and
has some dialogue between DM and R, wasn't used until "Leader of the
Pack" in season 4.
EPISODE: The initial setup in a prelude scene is that a mortal is using
lovers of Immortals to lure them into a trap, where he has prepared a
"darkroom", totally devoid of light, so that he can fight them with a
sword using heat sensitive goggles, and kill them. He is a protégé of
Horton who gets off on killing Immortals in this particular fashion.
Also involved is Greta, a psychic who ends up "seeing" Tessa's danger
during a casual palm reading in a bar, triggering a flashback to a gypsy
camp a couple of hundred years before, where Duncan is told he will love
many woman but marry none of them. In direct defiance of that edict,
after telling Tessa that no one's fate is predetermined, he proposes and
she accepts.
As expected, the bad guy distracts Duncan, then kidnaps Tessa and holds
her as hostage while Duncan frantically looks for her, with a lot of
pacing and worrying and chasing mysterious bad guys around, including
one falling off of a fire escape to his death. At the climax of the
story, Duncan ends up in the darkroom with the bad guy, swinging his
sword blindly until he pulls a pack of matches out, throws them up and
strikes them with his blade. The sudden heat blinds the bad guy with the
heat sensitive goggles, and Duncan kills him. He frees Tessa, they clasp
hands and declare their love, then Duncan sends her and Richie (who has
bumbled onto the scene only to get bonked on the head before he could do
anything useful) out to the car so he can look at the bad guy's computer
records.
At the car, a punk walks up to Richie and Tessa, demanding money, and
shooting them both when they don't produce any. Duncan hears the shots
and runs out, slowing down as he approaches Tessa's body. He goes to his
knees and pulls her into his lap and just sits there, stroking her face,
until the camera moves to Richie's body, and then Richie's eyes open.
There is a really, really sad follow-up, with Duncan standing in the
store, remembering all his wonderful and traumatic moments with Tessa,
holding one of her silk nightgowns in his hand, as "Dust in the Wind"
plays. At the end of that, he turns and walks out of the store, closing
the door behind him. He gives the keys to Richie, who is standing in the
alley, saying, "Sell it." Then he starts to walk away, but turns back
and tells Richie to "watch your head."
The emotionally important moments in this episode are many, but at the
top of the list is Duncan's defiant statement that no one's fate is
predestined, followed by his immediate proposal to Tessa. His love for
her was a tangible thing, communicating with remarkable power virtually
every time we saw them together. During the midst of the kidnapping
crisis, Duncan was cool, but fiercely determined, not at all cowed at
the notion that Fate was playing with him in the person of the psychic
and the gypsy who told him he would never marry. And he saved her. He
got the bad guy. Everything was okay. But then she was dead, violently,
suddenly, in a way he couldn't protect her from, didn't even know he was
*supposed* to protect her from. But protecting her was his job. The
helplessness of that, plus the pure sense of loss, would be utterly
crushing. His reaction seemed absolutely understandable, to me. In that
moment he had to believe that in defying Fate he had caused her death as
surely as though he had pulled the trigger himself. So what could he do
but go to his knees, and hold her? Not weep, not cry out. Just hold her.
There is a whole other story going on, though. Richie is not dead, at
least not permanently. He is Immortal, and is now Duncan's
responsibility, at a time when he would have no emotional energy to
spare for such a task. But as we see in later episodes, I think it is
that responsibility and Richie's irrepressible nature that keeps Duncan
from sinking back into that dark place where he retreated after Little
Deer was killed.
OPINIONS: I liked the emotional set-up - the defiance of Fate which
respresents to me a fundamental part of DM's character - a refusal to be
controlled by anything other than his own acts, skills and decisions. I
think Tracie Lord did (as DA said) have a certain vulnerability that
communicated well on screen, and I liked Tessa's determination to get
out of the bad guy's control. I have a few nits to pick about some plot
points, but on the whole the plot more or less held together. The final
scenes were hard to watch, but certainly are memorable, and have become
an essential part of an understanding of DM's character.
MacGeorge
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:11:48 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Impact 146: NEW Highlanderfor TV confirmed.
me before--
> >I really don't care any more, & it's a relief not to be invested
> >in HL;
Greg--
> Ah, but every time you post on this list, you *do* invest in the HL
> universe, and another piece of your soul is forever tied to the franchise.
There's a difference between idly gazing at the inevitable disaster, &
_caring_ about something spectacular turning itself into dreck--I remember
well. Through all their absurd failures, HL's lost me in that sense--&
about time, really.
> Hmmm... do I smell an A-list cast on a major network? Can we hope?
Nope. I doubt even John could tease to that extent.
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 10:14:40 -0000
From: "a.j.mosby" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Impact 146: NEW Highlanderfor TV confirmed.
Nina:
> There's a difference between idly gazing at the inevitable disaster, &
> _caring_ about something spectacular turning itself into dreck--I remember
> well. Through all their absurd failures, HL's lost me in that sense--&
> about time, really.
Tis the season to be jolly and, forgive me for saying so, but isn't there
always one person at the party who rather than even trying to demonstrate
any Christmas spirit and join in with all the other guests, slowly gets
drunk in the corner and complains noisily about everything from the
wallpaper, the seating arrangements, the little sausages on sticks, to how
this party sucks in relation to all the others they've been to and how
things just aren't what they used to be and they not sure why they bothered
coming to the party anyway.
And everyone else wonders why the person came to the party and is so adamant
on bloody staying if they dislike it so much.
John
Doctor Whoville.
PS)
"I doubt even John could tease to that extent." Ohhhhh,there goes my rep.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 09:44:17 EST
From: Highlandmg@aol.com
Subject: Re: Impact 146: NEW Highlanderfor TV confirmed.
Hi
I am thrilled with a early Christmas present that I can't open yet with the
news of a new series. Thank You John for telling us about this. It might not be
as good as the first one but ten again it might be better. I also don't
understand why judge something before its been shown. but TPTB will never please
everyone.
Mary
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:48:48 +0200
From: T'Mar <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: Impact 146: NEW Highlanderfor TV confirmed.
John wrote:
>And everyone else wonders why the person came to the party and is so adamant
>on bloody staying if they dislike it so much.
What, you only noticed this NOW, John? It's been going on for years!
- Marina.
\ "I think somewhere on the road to reality, ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// you took a left turn." - Nowhere Man || R I C H I E >> \\
\\=============tmar@sifl.iid.co.za===========||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//==Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie==|| \\
"The captain's on drugs and the first officer is a complete
lunatic... sounds about right for Star Trek." - My brother,
discussing the DS9 episode 'Valiant'
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:00:07 -0500
From: Bizarro7@aol.com
Subject: Re: Impact 146: NEW Highlanderfor TV confirmed.
John wrote:
>And everyone else wonders why the person came to the party and is so adamant
>on bloody staying if they dislike it so much.
What, you only noticed this NOW, John? It's been going on for years!
- Marina.<<
My theory is an extremely *lonely* individual is involved. Any attention will do, even the negative variety. So constant provocation is a favorite device. Somewhat akin to a bad toddler lying in the center of the floor in a store, kicking and screaming at the top of her lungs, having a sh*t fit.
I wonder if there's any awareness there of how *boring* it's all gotten, with the repetitiveness and predictability.
Leah
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:54:54 EST
From: Ashton7@aol.com
Subject: Re: Impact 146: NEW Highlanderfor TV confirmed.
In a message dated 12/19/2003 9:45:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Highlandmg@aol.com writes:
> I also don't
> understand why judge something before its been shown. but TPTB will never
> please
> everyone.
>
Well, that's always true. We watched The Zone on our 2nd season DVDs the
other night because I wanted to see Michael Shanks in it and I don't think I've
ever rewatched that episode -- and it's been years since we'd seen it, anyway.
It wasn't all *that* bad. Just badly underwritten and the flashback story (even
if it *hadn't* featured Shanks, who was a cutie) actually had a lot more
potential and was more interesting and than the modern day story. It's a pity they
skimped on the flashbacks in that one and put so much into the modern day
parts. Oh, and the editing sucked because Duncan's clothes kept changing from
moment to moment when the scene supposedly hadn't changed. LOL.
Annie
"I'm back!" -- Dr. Daniel Jackson
****************
Our Stargate Discussion Forum:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/ourstargate/start
Ashton Press: http://ashtonpress.net/
Gateway, A Stargate Slash Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gateway/join
Stargate Solutions: http://www.savedanieljackson.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 22:33:42 +0200
From: T'Mar <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: Impact 146: NEW Highlanderfor TV confirmed.
Leah wrote:
>My theory is an extremely *lonely* individual is involved. Any
>attention will do, even the negative variety. So constant provocation
>is a favorite device.
>I wonder if there's any awareness there of how *boring* it's all gotten,
>with the repetitiveness and predictability.
Actually, I kind of like the repetitiveness and predictability.
Because it's a lot of fun reading posts and knowing which ones
will set off another round of invective, then sitting back and
watching it happen.
Better than a soap opera. (And, you know, soap operas aren't
interactive. Hehe.)
- Marina.
\ "I think somewhere on the road to reality, ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// you took a left turn." - Nowhere Man || R I C H I E >> \\
\\=============tmar@sifl.iid.co.za===========||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//==Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie==|| \\
"The captain's on drugs and the first officer is a complete
lunatic... sounds about right for Star Trek." - My brother,
discussing the DS9 episode 'Valiant'
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:40:38 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Impact 146: NEW Highlanderfor TV confirmed.
John plays Scrooge--
> Tis the season to be jolly and, forgive me for saying so, but isn't there
> always one person at the party who rather than even trying to demonstrate
> any Christmas spirit and join in with all the other guests, slowly gets
> drunk in the corner and complains noisily about everything from the
> wallpaper, the seating arrangements, the little sausages on sticks, to how
So, you really DIDN'T want any discussion about a possible HL project? Or,
you ONLY wanted "rah, rah, look at them Immies go" types of comments? Wrong
list, fella.
> And everyone else wonders why the person came to the party and is so
adamant
> on bloody staying if they dislike it so much.
In part because it really bugs you & your ilk so very much?
Marina gets her predictable dig in--
>What, you only noticed this NOW, John? It's been going on for years!
And how long has it been since HL wasn't laughably/tragically bad? It's
been a lot of years since HL:TS season 5--& SEVERAL rank HL projects.
Listing them all would doubtless be considered boring, so....
Mary--
>>>I also don't understand why judge something before its been shown.
I don't judge but I do severely mistrust, because I have both a mind & a
memory for what they've done in the past. Bill Panzer proudly touting
Endgame as their "gift to the fans," for instance. (Which one--the
dizzyingly edited nonsense at theaters, or the Producers' Cut they later
sold us that still had most of the original inexcusable errors AND some new
ones? W/ "gifts" like Endgame, who needs fruitcake?)
It's certainly _possible_ that some future HL endeavor won't totally suck,
but statistically it's a loooooooong-shot.
Leah--
>My theory is an extremely *lonely* individual is involved. Any attention
will do, even the negative variety.
I've noticed the *lonely* individuals tend to create multiple online
personas so they can alternately argue w/ & support themselves in righteous
furor.
As for needing attention, it was John's teasing/advertising that started
this--blatant attention grabbing, a lot like the repetitive self-promotion
you/Annie do here, there & everywhere.
Nina (tra-la-la)
mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:47:47 -0700
From: Donna Gum <djgum@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Impact 146: NEW Highlanderfor TV confirmed.
>Nina -
>So, you really DIDN'T want any discussion about a possible HL project? Or,
>you ONLY wanted "rah, rah, look at them Immies go" types of comments? Wrong
>list, fella.
Why is that?
Check the name of the list and what it is we usually discuss here.
You're really reaching to be obnoxious now Nina.
Donna
djgum@earthlink.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 19:22:19 -0500
From: Wendy Tillis <immortals_incorporated@cox.net>
Subject: Re: :) Impact 146: NEW Highlanderfor TV confirmed.
John says:
>Impact 146 (out in January) has a world exclusive...
>...a special interview and feature about filming on the NEW Highlander TV
>for 2004.
I'm not going to step between John and Nina on whether it's nice to play "I know something you don't know" in the name of selling magazines...instead, I shall speculate on the new HL series (without benefit of any information)(I'm just not spending the $$ to import magazines from the UK for one HL article)(one column?)(full page plus B&W photo?)(5 page spread with full color ?)
Let's see..what *do* we know?
1)Highlander TV project set to film in the spring.
So....the money is a sure thing? Contracts are signed? 22-episode guarantee? 9 episode front shoot? 2 hour pilot with options? Or is this a pre-deal deal which may well come to naught?
2) No cast yet.
Probably waiting to decide if they need two 20-something guys and a 20-something girl..or 2 20-something girls and a 20-something guy. Or one 30-something guy and 2 20-something girls. Or one 20-something girl, one 20-something guy and a pre-teen girl. And...maybe a cute dog.
3)The writer involved (interviewed at length) is no stranger to Highlander...
Meaning? A writer who actually did some episodes of HL:TS? Or one of the writers who doctored the Endgame script (to death)? Or a writer who hung out at parties with Panzer? Some of the writers on HL:TS (and Raven) were less than stellar.
Never mind.
HL:The Younger Generation
Shot in Vancouver...pretending to be Anytown USA.
Our main resident Immortal will be a young, vaguely handsome guy with a love of fast cars, motorcycles, bar fights and chicks in tight skirts. He's young, he's Immortal and he's bored. He seems to have enough money to do..whatever..but no means of support (can't tie him down with a 9-5) He saves lost puppies, beats up dope dealers and rescues damsels in distress. One day ..no..one night..he is walking down one of those foggy alleys in Seacouver, feels the Buzz and meets...
Our resident Immortal chick. Tall. Thin. Gorgeous. Attitude but with a heart of gold. She loves cool sword moves, rock & roll, vodka martinis and .....a geeky non-Immortal boy.
Our resident mortal is young, handsome under his geekiness (For the sake of diversity, geek can be Latino)(But only in an Antonio Banderas way)(Not a Freddie Prinze way) and loves his woman even though she is Immortal. He loves computers, chemistry and history. He has some good kung-fu moves and used to sing with a band.
Immortal meets Immortal and UST sparks fly. Mortal guy is so thrilled to be "in on" the Immortal life that he befriends Immortal guy - even while Immortal guy eyes Immortal girl. Something bad happens to put the three of them on the run... looking for..something (the one-armed man)(No, not Xavier)(a hermit in a cave?)(The Holy Grail?)(The Book of All Knowledge?) they will move from town to town (and continent to continent) looking for this whatever ..all the while meeting and beheading other random Immortals.
If the series lasts 22 episodes, it will end with Immortal guy kissing Immortal girl just as mortal guy walks in.
#sweetness & light
Fairy Killer
jjswbt@cox.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 14:55:25 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Impact 146: NEW Highlanderfor TV confirmed.
me before--
> >So, you really DIDN'T want any discussion about a possible HL project?
Or,
> >you ONLY wanted "rah, rah, look at them Immies go" types of comments?
Wrong
> >list, fella.
Donna--
> Why is that?
> Check the name of the list and what it is we usually discuss here.
The point you wildly missed is that "discussion" means something other than
ravingly positive comments being made & allowed (w/o umbrage).
> You're really reaching to be obnoxious now Nina.
And you are name-calling. Not that there's anything wrong w/ that, of
course. You just didn't do it very well.
Nina (la, la, la la, la, la!)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 02:27:11 -0000
From: "a.j.mosby" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: :) Impact 146: NEW Highlanderfor TV confirmed.
> I'm not going to step between John and Nina on whether it's nice to play
"I know something you don't know" in the name of selling
magazines...instead, I shall speculate on the new HL series (without benefit
of any information)(I'm just not spending the $$ to import magazines from
the UK for one HL article)(one column?)(full page plus B&W photo?)(5 page
spread with full color ?)
Not really a 'I know somethigng you don't...' scenario as I'm blatantly
telling people where they can get the same information. Is this a business
deal? Yes. Though Highlander fans have regularly supported Impact as much as
we've supported Highlander.
>
> Let's see..what *do* we know?
>
> 1)Highlander TV project set to film in the spring.
>
> So....the money is a sure thing? Contracts are signed? 22-episode
guarantee? 9 episode front shoot? 2 hour pilot with options? Or is this a
pre-deal deal which may well come to naught?
Okay.... without spoiling the article: Writing contracts signed . People
came to D/P to do this series rather than the other way around. Details of
project length....hmmm... I never said this was a 'series'. Think
Battlestar Glactica. Think Farscape.
> 2) No cast yet.
There will be an ensemble cast. Mixed ages.
> 3)The writer involved (interviewed at length) is no stranger to
Highlander...
>
> Meaning? A writer who actually did some episodes of HL:TS? Or one of the
writers who doctored the Endgame script (to death)? Or a writer who hung out
at parties with Panzer? Some of the writers on HL:TS (and Raven) were less
than stellar.
A name that fans will recognise and who should be just what the doctor
ordered when it comes to getting the franchise back on track. .
> Never mind.
>
> HL:The Younger Generation
>
> Shot in Vancouver...pretending to be Anytown USA.
The article discusses locations for shooting. Some genuine surprises.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 02:34:32 -0000
From: "a.j.mosby" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Impact 146: NEW Highlanderfor TV confirmed.
> John plays Scrooge--
Bah. Humbug. Let's see that would make Nina the 'Ghost of Christmas Yet To
Grinch?'
> So, you really DIDN'T want any discussion about a possible HL project?
Or,
> you ONLY wanted "rah, rah, look at them Immies go" types of comments?
Wrong
> list, fella.
And the world went 'huh?' I was saying where Highlander fans could get more
info and igniting a thread in a list that has seen about three postings in
the last month. Pardon me for talking about Highlander. What *was* I
thinking?
> > And everyone else wonders why the person came to the party and is so
adamant
> > on bloody staying if they dislike it so much.
>
> In part because it really bugs you & your ilk so very much?
My ilk? I have an ilk? Wow. Just what I wanted for Christmas. Thank you. Are
there watering instructions or can I just put it in a corner and feed it
vinegar?
> As for needing attention, it was John's teasing/advertising that started
> this--blatant attention grabbing, a lot like the repetitive self-promotion
> you/Annie do here, there & everywhere.
> Nina (tra-la-la)
Damn that whole advertising thang. Next thing you'll know, people will be
trailering shows on television and taking adverts in the TV Guide. Do they
have no shame?????
John
Proper Gander.
------------------------------
End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 18 Dec 2003 to 19 Dec 2003 (#2003-32)
**************************************************************