There are 23 messages totalling 801 lines in this issue. Topics in this special issue: 1. Well & truly a slash thing now (7) 2. How long... (16) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 17:23:26 -1000 From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net> Subject: Re: Well & truly a slash thing now beccaelizabeth-- > was using 'you' because using 'one' is rare stuffy use of language these > days, yes? > not saying specific you who is reading, just general you as in possible > people > (have noticed one reason arguing happens is people take 'you' to mean > you personal, which isnt always intended. talking about topic am I not > people) Since you realize the likelihood of confusion, I'd think you'd be more careful in your phrasing. For that matter, the traditional use of full sentences, punctuation & capitalization isn't "stuffy" so much as vital for clarity. beccaelizabeth-- > or not get flamed. flames are not an appropriate response to most > things. > by flame I do not mean discussion or even argument but personal > comments, attacks, people quoting the bible at you and saying you > going to burn in hell. > flames. happens. often. But certainly that has not happened here, in this discussion. Has it? So, why did you bring it up like that? What relevance does it have here & now? To me, it looks like a play for sympathy for the poor slash victims, which is totally unwarranted. beccaelizabeth-- > some of the objections people have are to fanfic, some to slash > (with varying definitions of slash), some to bdsm type fic and some > to characters plain being nasty to each other. fanfic includes all > the others, but slash is not necessarily nasty. seperate issues really. Closely related issues, really. And I think folks here can keep things straight. > Richie, Haunted. > guilt, remorse, shame, uncertainty. and a uniquely HL twist with the > whole was it him or the quickening in him thing. That's not what I was talking about. RR was totally fine w/ the sex--he was just freaked about identifying overly w/ the dead hubby he whacked. He'd have felt about the same had he slipped into the guy's skin while on a carnival ride w/ the widow. beccaelizabeth-- > angst is the easiest to explain- DM in particular is a very angsty guy. > you write an entire story with DM Not getting all broody and you've > probably taken him out of character. No--making DM broody about buggering Richie bloody on the dojo floor or about whether Methos thinks his ass is too big--THAT'S taking DM out of character. > if > the plot is going to be the relationship developing, as is often the > case in slash, then you either make it happy hot and sweaty, or happy > and sweet, or all varieties of not quite happy but very dramatic. > dont seem to me to be about diminishing the characters, just basic story > craft. Even bad soap operas know that relationship is NOT plot. Sex certainly is NOT plot, except in pornography. Hell, fanfic/slash writers ALREADY stole the background universe AND some or all of the characters--the LEAST they can do to earn the title of "writer" is come up w/ a plot! > I mean if you want to write NC-17 fanfic you just put that at the > top of the page, but to do that on screen is a whole big thing and > not so many people will want to watch and basically most shows stay > clear of it. so part of the purpose of fiction is to explore issues > that you cannot explore RL, or to show things in fanfic > that they never will on screen. so you gets the many of stories with > much nastiness. And, of course, there's no way to police ratings or know the actual age of people reading fanfic on the internet or in a fanzine. So, in fact, kids can & surely do read the most savage & pornographic slash stories. > characters being involved in sexual violence tends to annoy most people > who actually like the character the way they see them. fair enough, > dont read it. Sorry--that doesn't keep me from being annoyed. I prefer this solution--write anything one likes, but don't widely distribute it on the net or in fanzines. > someone did see that in the character, or wanted to get a > reaction or base a story around that character doing that, so they > write. some of them do even do it on purpose to be mean to the > characters. not so much fun. That's one aspect of the "beating up" of characters in slash that I mentioned earlier. And it's those people who are probably homophobic--not the people complaining about slash. Nina mac.westie@verizon.net Save Farscape http://farscape.wdsection.com/index.php Frell Sci Fi, just on principle. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 22:02:56 -0700 From: Jen Allen <jen@jendaveallen.com> Subject: Re: Well & truly a slash thing now John Mosby wrote: > Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with Hot Lesbo Action, you understand...but > expecting to see it merely because of an emotional bond seems to suggest a limited > imagination and one that meant I would probably get disparaging looks from those > around me. I've heard statements like this before, and they always annoy me. :P It's not a *limited* imagination, it's a *different* imagination. What you see and what I see may not correspond at all, but why does that make one of us limited in any way? We're both seeing what we want to see in the show. Period. Neither side is wrong. Neither side is limited. They're just different. So if you want to see Hot Lesbo Action everywhere you look, go ahead. It's your imagination--have fun with it. <g> Jen -- , , / \/ \ (/ //_ \_ .-._ \|| . \ \ '-._ _,:__.-"/---\_ \ ______/___ '. .--------------------'~-'--.)__( , )\ \ `'--.___ _\ / | Jen Allen ,' \)|\ `\| /_.-' _\ \ _:,_ Chronicler for JL Dawson " || ( .'__ _.' \'-/,`-~` Bryan Cutler and Jim O'Leary |/ '. ___.> /=,| http://www.jendaveallen.com | / .-'/_ ) '---------------------------------' snd )' ( /(/ \\ " '==' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:44:05 +0100 From: John Mosby <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: Well & truly a slash thing now > Last time I looked, beheading people was also illegal. Should illegality > of characters actions be a criteria? Should Vs Could Be. Quite likely that there's someone out there who believes that fanfic containing various acts of murder by decpitation(albeit in arguable self-defence) is wrong as entertainment. I don't believe that Highlander was an immoral show, but it's clear from recent polls that some shows I admire are seen as 'dangerous' by some extreme factions. Again, not evaluating the criticisms, just stating that various criteria exist depending on what view you choose to see. > "the rights of the individual TO society"? What it the world are you > talking about? Well, quite simple really. I'm saying that while I believe in individual freedoms, that doesn't mean that anyone can do anything they want...because actions have repercussions. I believe in the right of an individual to believe ANYTHING he wants, but not always to act that out because I absolutly understand the need for society to have rules and laws by which it survives. > >The bottom line is simply: Write what you want, when you want...but the > >minute you seek to pass it to a wider audience, expect that it will get > >other reactions and be judged with a degree of scrutiny other than you > >might want or expect. > > > >Which is true of any writer or writing... > > Yep, even posts to an email list. Exactly - which is why I love these discussions. John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 03:24:04 -0700 From: Pat Lawson <plawson@webleyweb.com> Subject: Re: Well & truly a slash thing now John wrote: > > "the rights of the individual TO society"? What it the world are you > > talking about? > >Well, quite simple really. I'm saying that while I believe in individual >freedoms, that doesn't mean that anyone can do anything they >want...because actions have repercussions. I believe in the right of an >individual to believe ANYTHING he wants, but not always to act that out >because I absolutly understand the need for society to have rules and laws >by which it survives. I suspected that was your meaning, but your phrasing was puzzling. Seeing as you're a professional wordsmith it left me wondering. In several years worth of debate on the subject of rights, responsibilities and society this was the first time I've seen anyone mention "rights of the individual TO society". You're talking about individual rights within a society, correct? Or is this one of those American/English language differences? Ah, this is a subject for long conversations and not really suitable for this list. Pat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 09:54:43 -0500 From: Ecolea <ecolea@wt.net> Subject: How long... How long has this conversation been going on? Would the slashers please go and get some batteries for their vibrators, get laid or rent some gay porn vids! Will the non-slashers please do the same, except make the videos hetero? Now, please go to your separate corners and write the favorite sexual coupling of your choice. Better yet, write or read the exact opposite of whatever it is you are arguing against. You will either have an epiphany or die of boredom. Either way, it will give the rest of us a break from the droning whine of a conversation dating back to 1995! Ecolea I seized the day and it screamed -- then I killed it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:02:15 -0400 From: L Cameron-Norfleet <cgliser@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: How long... Ecolea said: >Would the slashers please go and get some batteries for their vibrators, get >laid or rent some gay porn vids! Wow. I can't even begin to express how offended I am by this. Liser (a LOT) -- Lisa Cameron-Norfleet ** cgliser@earthlink.net -- Guinness is my anti-drug. -Greg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:06:05 -0400 From: jjswbt@earthlink.net Subject: Re: How long... Ecolea wrote: >How long has this conversation been going on? Does it matter? >Would the slashers please go and get some batteries for their vibrators, >get laid or rent some gay porn vids! > >Will the non-slashers please do the same, except make the videos hetero? >Now, please go to your separate corners and write the favorite sexual >coupling of your choice. Better yet, write or read the exact opposite of >whatever it is you are arguing against. You will either have an epiphany or >die of boredom. Either way, it will give the rest of us a break from the >droning whine of a conversation dating back to 1995! Excuse me? Excuse me? FRELLING EXCUSE ME? Who died and made you the arbiter of what can and what can't be discussed here? Last time I checked Debbie was still alive and kicking. If Debbie doesn't tell us to stop, we don't have to stop. In case you are unfamiliar with keyboards, there is usually a DELETE key located somewhere ..I suggest you look for it and learn to use it. #mean-spirited(I shall now continue to post on the subject for another week.) Fairy Killer jjswbt@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~jjswbt/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:09:21 +0200 From: Marina Bailey <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za> Subject: Re: Well & truly a slash thing now ZK wrote: >Then, we hit CaH and Rev, and the slash, as well as ADULT hetero, >turned violent. Extremely so. The majority of erotic stuff >coming across HLFIC involved oppression, rape and torture, or at >least depicted someone dominating another person sexually. Okay, this might be strange, but I've never read any slash like that. All my slash has love (very important) and tenderness in it. I didn't go out of my way to avoid violent stories - if a story that had a violence/torture/BDSM warning came down, I would just hit delete. I think this selection process was helped by my only reading stories that featured Duncan/Methos (with an occasional D/J or M/J or even D/R, though I find it hard to imagine Richie being slashed, as I said before). There is no way one can read every single slash story for a particular fandom. We're all selective. So my limited selection process has ended up being quite effective for me. All sweetness and light and happy endings. (And yet I hate Mills & Boon with a passion.) I don't *want* violence and torture. If I wanted that, all I'd have to do is pick up a newspaper. I want things to work out, even in slashy stories. And why not? In fiction, if we want to, we should be able to have a "happily ever after". - Marina. \\ "I don't care about their different thoughts; ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> // // different thoughts are good for me." || R I C H I E >> \\ \\ - Tanita Tikaram ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> // //=====Marina Bailey=====tmar@sifl.iid.co.za=====|| \\ \\==============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie=============// "Great. Now I'm a slash enabler." - Nina ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:20:52 +0200 From: Marina Bailey <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za> Subject: Re: How long... Ecolea wrote: >How long has this conversation been going on? >Would the slashers please go and get some batteries for their vibrators, get >laid or rent some gay porn vids! >Will the non-slashers please do the same, except make the videos hetero? Would people not interested in the conversation kindly hit their delete keys and stop trying to tell the rest of us what to discuss? It's related to Highlander, it's on-topic and it's interesting to those taking part. - Marina. (The conversation does not date back to 1995. We were not allowed to discuss slash in 1995.) (I should whap somebody just for good measure.) \\ "I don't care about their different thoughts; ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> // // different thoughts are good for me." || R I C H I E >> \\ \\ - Tanita Tikaram ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> // //=====Marina Bailey=====tmar@sifl.iid.co.za=====|| \\ \\==============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie=============// "Great. Now I'm a slash enabler." - Nina ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:24:58 +0200 From: Marina Bailey <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za> Subject: Re: How long... Wendy wrote: >(I shall now continue to post on the subject for another week.) I'm with ya, Wendy. Okay, we've done the "intention" part of it. What else can we do? Morals? An episode by episode analysis? A discussion of whether Cassandra put Methos off women? Whether Dr. Anne put Dunkie off women? Quick, I'm sure we can come up with something!! - Marina. \\ "I don't care about their different thoughts; ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> // // different thoughts are good for me." || R I C H I E >> \\ \\ - Tanita Tikaram ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> // //=====Marina Bailey=====tmar@sifl.iid.co.za=====|| \\ \\==============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie=============// "Great. Now I'm a slash enabler." - Nina ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:30:09 -0400 From: Sandy Fields <diamonique@comcast.net> Subject: Re: How long... At 09:54 AM 09/30/2002 -0500, Ecolea wrote: >Either way, it will give the rest of us a break from the droning whine of >a conversation dating back to 1995! Yikes!! Somebody found some strange yellowish liquid in her corn flakes this morning! Hmmm... last I checked this was email group devoted to a tv show whose last episode was filmed in 1997. Methinks any conversation that is on topic would be a bit dated. Anyone who doesn't want to discuss old stuff would (I would think) unsubscribe from the list. The point is.... if the people on this list want to have this discussion (which seems quite evident to me)... then they should have this discussion; and there's only one person here who has the authority to stop it. :::Sandy waves to Debbie-With-The-Whip::: -- Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:33:55 EDT From: Ashton7@aol.com Subject: Re: How long... In a message dated 9/30/02 11:23:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tmar@sifl.iid.co.za writes: << A discussion of whether Cassandra put Methos off women? Whether Dr. Anne put Dunkie off women? >> Or maybe Methos put Cassandra off men and Dunkie put Dr. Anne off men? Dr. Anne and Cassandra together... Is there female slash in Highlander? I've never noticed any, but I wasn't looking. There is lots of female slash in Stargate (mostly Sam/Janet). Annie VOTE FOR MICHAEL SHANKS!! http://www.geminiawards.ca/stars/geministar10.cfm ::Remember, you can vote every day for each email addie. So vote, already!:: **************** Save Daniel Jackson: http://www.savedanieljackson.com Ashton Press: http://ashtonpress.net/ Fan Fiction: http://fanfic.ashtonpress.net/ Fanzines: http://fanzines.ashtonpress.net/ Gateway, A Stargate Slash Discussion/Fiction Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gateway/join ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:31:52 -0400 From: Sandy Fields <diamonique@comcast.net> Subject: Re: How long... At 11:06 AM 09/30/2002 -0400, jjswbt@EARTHLINK.NET wrote: >In case you are unfamiliar with keyboards, there is usually a DELETE key >located somewhere ..I suggest you look for it and learn to use it. Ditto! >#mean-spirited(I shall now continue to post on the subject for another week.) I haven't been participating... but I surely will get into the discussion now! Hmmm... I haven't read any slash in years. Am I still qualified to discuss this? Does it really matter? :-) -- Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:21:23 +0200 From: Marina Bailey <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za> Subject: Re: How long... Annie wrote: >Or maybe Methos put Cassandra off men and Dunkie put Dr. Anne off men? Dr. >Anne and Cassandra together... Is there female slash in Highlander? I've >never noticed any, but I wasn't looking. There is lots of female slash in >Stargate (mostly Sam/Janet). I've never noticed any either, but now we are compelled to look for, erm, *evidence* in the episodes. (Waves at Nina, then hides in the padded room.) Okay... I don't think Anne and Cassandra ever met, so no go there. Well, we could do Anne/Amanda (they did meet - Amanda was *touching* Anne, for crying out loud!) or Amanda/the SWF chick ("There's something about a woman with her hand on a man's wallet that turns me on") or Amanda/Rebecca (same bed). Anne and the nurse who looked up Dunkie's medical records? - Marina. (Who finds the f/f slash in Stargate out of character and unbelievable.) (Now that's the pot calling the kettle black.) <g> \\ "I don't care about their different thoughts; ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> // // different thoughts are good for me." || R I C H I E >> \\ \\ - Tanita Tikaram ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> // //=====Marina Bailey=====tmar@sifl.iid.co.za=====|| \\ \\==============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie=============// "Great. Now I'm a slash enabler." - Nina ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 12:26:14 -0400 From: Bizarro7@aol.com Subject: Re: How long... In a message dated Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:24:58 +0200, tmar@sifl.iid.co.za writes: > A discussion of whether Cassandra put Methos off women?< And the reverse is just as likely, and an interesting topic, too. Leah (who had some interesting conversation with Tracy S. on the subject of Cassandra, at Dragoncon, a few weeks ago) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:41:37 +0200 From: Marina Bailey <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za> Subject: Re: How long... Leah wrote: >And the reverse is just as likely, and an interesting topic, too. >(... had some interesting conversation with Tracy S. on the subject of >Cassandra, at Dragoncon, a few weeks ago) So, let's hear them. :) - Marina. \\ "I don't care about their different thoughts; ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> // // different thoughts are good for me." || R I C H I E >> \\ \\ - Tanita Tikaram ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> // //=====Marina Bailey=====tmar@sifl.iid.co.za=====|| \\ \\==============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie=============// "Great. Now I'm a slash enabler." - Nina ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 12:56:31 -0400 From: Bizarro7@aol.com Subject: Re: How long... In a message dated Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:41:37 +0200, tmar@sifl.iid.co.za writes: > Leah wrote: > >And the reverse is just as likely, and an interesting topic, too. > >(... had some interesting conversation with Tracy S. on > the subject of > >Cassandra, at Dragoncon, a few weeks ago) > > So, let's hear them. :) > > - Marina. Well ya gotta remember that Tracy's always been a fangrrl herself; she confesses to being a huge fan of the original TREK series as a kid, and all the glamour roles aside, she loves doing Sci-Fi and fantasy series. As an only daughter of two high-powered attorneys and an extremely independent character, she had a real problem with having to relinquish a lot of power as Cassandra between her first appearance as a character (PROPHECY) and the second (CaH/Rev). It struck her as lame and demeaning as a strong female character, after the strong set-up. She wasn't happy that the plot and circumstances didn't allow Cassandra better sword skills, tht she didn't get to kill any of her former tormentors, and that there was no follow-up (which would be a natural wish, if only from the standpoint of an actress with a recurring role). I didn't want to bring up the subject of fan resentment of a character she portrayed; the poor woman got stuck dealing with enough of that after being hired to replace Claudia Christian on Babylon 5. Among the other conversation I recall, I thanked her profusely for gifting me with the earrings Cassandra wore in CaH/Rev, and she pointed out that she was wearing the necklace that day. I told her I'd recognized it and she chortled "I love ya Leah, but you ain't getting this one." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 13:56:33 -0400 From: Ace!Miracle <ke731458@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu> Subject: Re: How long... > At 09:54 AM 09/30/2002 -0500, Ecolea wrote: > >Either way, it will give the rest of us a break from the droning whine of > >a conversation dating back to 1995! Dead equines anyone? Isn't the whole idea of discussing HL a dead horse? Because as Sany points out: > Hmmm... last I checked this was email group devoted to a tv show whose last > episode was filmed in 1997. Sandy again: > The point is.... if the people on this list want to have this discussion > (which seems quite evident to me)... then they should have this discussion; Remember the 12th Commandment: "Thou shalt use the delete key when thou agreest not with the topic of discussion." And certainly in a more intelligent manner than suggesting we all need to "get some batteries for our vibrators." (I'm with Liser. I was quite insulted.) (The 11th commandment, as we all know is "Thou shalt not pay a lot for this muffler.") > and there's only one person here who has the authority to stop Because after all, there can be only one! All hail the list goddess. --Miracle ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I got power, I'm proud to be loud; my signal goes out clear. I want everybody to know that Mozo is here! On the air..." --Peter Gabriel, 1978 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Minor Major Miracle: Time Lady, Jedi Knight, Occasional Grad Student NOW IN STORES: PETER GABRIEL'S "UP" Listen and watch at http://petergabriel.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:20:15 EDT From: Highlandmg@aol.com Subject: Re: How long... Hi Boy I have seen everything now. WHO are you Did you have to use another name to post here? I never saw you before. You might do what I do when I am not interested in a thread. Its really very simple use the delete key Mary ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:22:59 EDT From: Highlandmg@aol.com Subject: Re: How long... Sandy writes < haven't been participating... but I surely will get into the discussion now! Hmmm... I haven't read any slash in years. Am I still qualified to <discuss this? Does it really matter? :-)> No you can't Mary <VEG> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:36:30 -0400 From: SenseiRob@aol.com Subject: Re: Well & truly a slash thing now > Last time I looked, beheading people was also illegal. Should illegality > of characters actions be a criteria? Isn't it? The movie "Highlander" was rated R, so in fact portrayals of violence and sex are a criteria, and are Restricted, as the ratings say. In this instance, these activities are deemed inappropriate, and underage children are protected against being exposed to these images, sex and beheadings alike. Which leads me to a related point. I've heard of controversy regarding changing access to sites that have hosted slash. Explicit slash. Now, my own definition of pornography covers explicit written and visual images, for all alternatives of sex, and I think slash writers should feel obligated, in a legal and moral sense, to restrict their product to an appropriate audience. Instead, I see that slashers - writers and devotees alike - particularly enjoy, well, bragging about their pornography, er, fanfic, all across fandom, especially on the Internet. Does an attraction to slash, and that "different" type of imagination, lead to an obsession with "outing" themselves publicly and subjecting everyone else to information about the genre? It does seem to be a compulsion among more than a few of you - heck, just count the posts in favor! (Envision someone holding up a copy of <choices not limited to Playboy, Playgirl, Playdude, Swank, Hustler> at a news stand and declaring publicly that they like <any combination of physical attributes or activities>). Remember that slash is inherently about sex. Is it appropriate to publicly reveal your sexual inclinations, activities, and interests in an open forum? Someone mentions slash and suddenly it's a "Roll Call" for supporters. Is this a completely appropriate audience? Would you sit down and tell your underage relatives about slash? What makes you think they're not at conventions, lurking on bulletin boards on the 'net, or even subscribed to this List? Should we "draw the line" carefully to not include slash writers and devotees in the arena of inappropriateness or outright TMI? There's a difference between saying "I think this character is attractive..." and continuing with "and my sexual fantasy is to see..." and worse to elaborate - in public. I won't even quibble with the point that such slash doesn't exist onscreen. But I suspect slash writers and devotees will continue to out themselves regularly, and make fandom into their own personal "Sexual Interests Anonymous". JUST TO BE CLEAR: Everyone knows this obviously isn't a "stfu" post, although I wondered "How long.." it would be before we got (another) one of those <vbeg>. But I'm just amazed how slash inherently maneuvers for an "inviolate" status as a topic of discussion or as an 'art form' in fandom. When my child learns to read and inevitably gets drawn to the Internet to learn more about the fandoms he's already intrigued by... oh boy. Or is that -- oh boy/boy? (I'll be unhappy if I have to explain slash before we have "the talk", or he hits puberty at least) (He'd inevitably join a fandom List or Forum or finds stories on the 'net which would mention or portray multiple Hobbits, Harry and Ron, Xander and Spike, etc., engaging in unseemly "acts" because someone has their own misguided theories on inappropriateness) (Until then, previews by Mom & Dad and/or restricted access to the 'net until he's 18) (Graduated college?) (Married and/or living on his own?) (He'll know all about Highla-L from us, and even wear the shirts, but he won't experience it firsthand) (A shame, considering his own existence is completely rooted in Highlander fandom) -Rob (Sexuality) (If you think it's empowering to walk around naked, wouldn't you be sure to choose the appropriate audience first?) SenseiRob@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 12:38:27 -0600 From: Donna J Gum <djgum@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: How long... At 08:54 AM 9/30/2002, you wrote: >How long has this conversation been going on? > >Would the slashers please go and get ... <CUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!> The question: Why do we have subject lines marked clearly as "slash"? The answer: So people don't have a _good_ reason to be incredibly rude and insulting if they happen to read "those" posts. (Accidentally?) Donna djgum@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:48:26 EDT From: Ashton7@aol.com Subject: Re: Well & truly a slash thing now In a message dated 9/30/02 2:37:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SenseiRob@aol.com writes: << Remember that slash is inherently about sex. Is it appropriate to publicly reveal your sexual inclinations, activities, and interests in an open forum? Someone mentions slash and suddenly it's a "Roll Call" for supporters. Is this a completely appropriate audience? Would you sit down and tell your underage relatives about slash? >> Personally, I think a lot of what's wrong with society is this inherent belief that sex and knowledge about sex is somehow inherently wrong or dirty or evil. Or all three. I think it's highly unlikely that children will be damaged by exposure to naked people or the idea of sex or the idea of same-sex couples and that it's much more likely that the constant violence surrounding them which is, for some insane reason, more socially acceptable on tv and in movies and on the internet and in books, will damage them than the idea that two men or two women might choose to have a life together which includes sexual relations. I have also *never*, in all of my 44 years, found a book or an internet connection which is capable of following someone around, demanding to be read. So, just because it's "there" and available doesn't mean someone who doesn't like it has to read it or look at it. Annie VOTE FOR MICHAEL SHANKS!! http://www.geminiawards.ca/stars/geministar10.cfm ::Remember, you can vote every day for each email addie. So vote, already!:: **************** Save Daniel Jackson: http://www.savedanieljackson.com Ashton Press: http://ashtonpress.net/ Fan Fiction: http://fanfic.ashtonpress.net/ Fanzines: http://fanzines.ashtonpress.net/ Gateway, A Stargate Slash Discussion/Fiction Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gateway/join ------------------------------ End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 29 Sep 2002 to 30 Sep 2002 - Special issue (#2002-162) *******************************************************************************