HIGHLA-L Digest - 12 Apr 2002 to 13 Apr 2002 - Special issue
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@lists.psu.edu)
Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:30:14 -0400
There are 16 messages totalling 822 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Highlander the musical (13)
2. Highlander: The Musical LYRICS!!!!! (2)
3. Highlander the musical -- heading OT
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:46:56 -0400
From: Trilby <trilby23@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
Nina wrote:
> But, DPP has failed to do exactly what you outlined in all THOSE areas, over
> several years. (Getting the money w/o fatally handing over control to
> morons seems to be a major repeated problem for them. So much for learning
> from mistakes.) So, WHY should we expect them to suddenly hit on all
> cylinders when it comes to a musical production, which is a rather
> specialized area where, as far as I know, DPP has NO experience, expertise,
> contacts, etc. ???
There's no reason at all to expect a success, and every reason to
expect failure, if one is into predicting the future.
I hoped Endgame would be good, in spite of past history (and I did
enjoy parts of it, and I think a very few small moments were just
wonderful). Whatever HL project comes along, I'll continue to *hope*
it will be at least decent. If this hypothetical musical should ever
come about (doubtful, IMO, given the huge amounts of money it takes
these days to mount a new musical), or the projected 3rd series, I'll
still hope, against all reason or experience, that it will be good.
I'll try not to *expect* greatness, but I'm not going to expect
failure either.
------------ Trilby
"Let no man pull you so low as to hate him." Martin Luther King
9/4/56
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:22:24 -0400
From: Trilby <trilby23@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Highlander: The Musical LYRICS!!!!!
Marina wrote:
> - Marina. (ZK, you must be slipping. Not one misspelling of
> Richie. *Snerk*) (And I so miss whapping people...)
Marina, hon, just for you:
I love RITCHIE. I started watching HL around the middle of the 3rd season, and I didn't "get" RITCHEY at
all, but after I saw the show from the first season on, RITCHEE really grew on me. I just love him.
(Was that enough?)
-------------------------- Trilby (Just wants to make everyone happy)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:11:26 EDT
From: Ashton7@aol.com
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
In a message dated 4/12/02 7:08:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
<< As I recently pointed out during a debate on one of the Stargate lists, it
was not really practical to complain about that show's Season Six until
people had bothered to watch an episode of it first. Fine to say what they
thought was a bad idea, but to at least wait for final judgement until the
evidence was in. >>
Yes, John, but people are basing their opinions of the upcoming 6th season of
Stargate on the CURRENT 5th season which, in the opinion of many, has been
slip sliding away... and I can guess the same is true for those who will make
the assumption that after the 6th season of Highlander, Endgame and THe Raven
that they no longer have as much (or any) faith in DPP's ability to make
"good" Highlander. Hey, I enjoyed many parts of 6th season HL, Endgame and
The Raven... but even I would have to say that none of those products came
close to living up to the earlier seasons of HL that made me a "fan" of the
series.
Annie
"Unless the last two years have been a wacky, wacky dream, I am a member of
SG-1." -- Dr. Daniel Jackson
****************
Save Daniel Jackson: http://www.savedanieljackson.com
Ashton Press: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/
Fan Fiction: http://members.aol.com/pelkiepet/stories.htm
Fanzines: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/zines.htm
Gateway, A Stargate Slash Discussion/Fiction Group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gateway/join
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 00:22:10 -0500
From: Kamil <kamil@mmcable.com>
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical -- heading OT
From: "MacWestie"
> (Do it right, & they will come, sort of.)
Well, most people will -- oh wait, that's not what you meant. Sorry, my bad. <g>
So, WHY should we expect them to suddenly hit on all
> cylinders when it comes to a musical production, which is a rather
> specialized area where, as far as I know, DPP has NO experience, expertise,
> contacts, etc. ???
Well maybe they can hire Joss to do it for them? After all, he's just a big ole
fanboy himself <g>, and I don't think I'm the only one that thought he hit on
all cylinders, and then added a few more for good measure, when he did "Once
More, With Feeling". And hey, he named Angel's kid Connor -- so who knows, he's
probably already a fan and might do it for fun. ... or not. <g> But it sure
would be cool if he did.
And as one of the fully spoiled (well, to the extent that such a thing is
possible these days), 19 has a detailed sequence of events for one *huge* scene
(with both long and short term consequences) that got out weeks ago but almost
no other details, there's *tons* of stuff for 18 and 20, but 21 and 22 aren't
letting the usual location scouts *anywhere* near most parts of the shoots. Even
the folks who've been going for years and are known to the PA and Security
types. Although AngelX has implied that she'd let something important out once
there was no longer a chance that ME could change that scene if it leaked --
which makes me think it's not your run of the mill spoiler. <g> Anyway, let me
say that things are about to get very *very* interesting, and I have *no* idea
how he's gonna wrap all of this up in five eps.
But I sure can't wait for Joss to show me. <g>
--
Kamil -- is it April 30th yet?
Spike: "A bear! You made a bear!"
Buffy: "I didn't mean to...."
Spike: "Undo it! Undo it!"
"Pangs" BtVS
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:06:40 +0100
From: "John Mosby (B)" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
Annie
At the risk of alienating (no pun intended) Daniel Jackson fans on two
Lists, let me clarify.
I DO understand and somewhat sympathise with fans of Stargate who are
worried about the future. The supposed changes to the upcoming season don't
sound great. However some of the vitriol (and some of it clearly jumps the
fence of criticism into downright nastiness) starts deconstructing
characters and situations that we've yet to see, or if we have, for less
than a full episode.
I have no problem with any opinion, even if it differs from mine :) and
would fully understand a comment that said: "This season went downhill and I
think from what I've heard the next season won't be reversing the trend'.
What I'm often hearing is: "Oh, we've hated Stargate's decline for ages and
look how poor the character of Jonas is going to be, He's useless. The
character dynmaics suck now and.......etc etc" In other words, people
writing as if they've seen the episodes rather than simplty read spoilers
(many of which I have to say have a description that seems geared for
whichever sub-group of Stargate fandom they try to attract).
SG-1 Season Six may stink more than a century old cheddar cheese.
Highlander: The Musical may bomb on a nuclear scale given the D/P track
record. But though I'll happily state my reservations, I'm not willing to
completely write off either just yet.
To misquote the missing Mulder's famous poster.
I Want to Believe. (or is that Disbelieve?)
John
----- Original Message -----
From: <Ashton7@aol.com>
To: <HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 4:11 AM
Subject: Re: [HL] Highlander the musical
> In a message dated 4/12/02 7:08:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
>
> << As I recently pointed out during a debate on one of the Stargate
lists, it
> was not really practical to complain about that show's Season Six until
> people had bothered to watch an episode of it first. Fine to say what
they
> thought was a bad idea, but to at least wait for final judgement until
the
> evidence was in. >>
>
> Yes, John, but people are basing their opinions of the upcoming 6th season
of
> Stargate on the CURRENT 5th season which, in the opinion of many, has been
> slip sliding away... and I can guess the same is true for those who will
make
> the assumption that after the 6th season of Highlander, Endgame and THe
Raven
> that they no longer have as much (or any) faith in DPP's ability to make
> "good" Highlander. Hey, I enjoyed many parts of 6th season HL, Endgame and
> The Raven... but even I would have to say that none of those products came
> close to living up to the earlier seasons of HL that made me a "fan" of
the
> series.
>
> Annie
>
> "Unless the last two years have been a wacky, wacky dream, I am a member
of
> SG-1." -- Dr. Daniel Jackson
> ****************
> Save Daniel Jackson: http://www.savedanieljackson.com
> Ashton Press: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/
> Fan Fiction: http://members.aol.com/pelkiepet/stories.htm
> Fanzines: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/zines.htm
> Gateway, A Stargate Slash Discussion/Fiction Group:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gateway/join
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:15:03 EDT
From: Ashton7@aol.com
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
In a message dated 4/13/02 5:06:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
<< To misquote the missing Mulder's famous poster.
I Want to Believe. (or is that Disbelieve?)
>>
That's your perogative. Some people reach the limit of how far they are
willing to stretch before they give up in disgust and start to feel blatantly
used simply *because* they are fans.
Personally, to me, a HL musical sounds like a dreadful idea. It might turn
out great. As someone who has been repeatedly disappointed by DPP in past
years, though, I'm no longer willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
If it turns out great, I'll be happy and no doubt want to see it. If it turns
out bad, I won't have wasted my time watching it and trying to believe in it.
THey no longer have my unquestioning support.
Annie
"Unless the last two years have been a wacky, wacky dream, I am a member of
SG-1." -- Dr. Daniel Jackson
****************
Save Daniel Jackson: http://www.savedanieljackson.com
Ashton Press: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/
Fan Fiction: http://members.aol.com/pelkiepet/stories.htm
Fanzines: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/zines.htm
Gateway, A Stargate Slash Discussion/Fiction Group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gateway/join
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:36:16 +0100
From: "John Mosby (B)" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
To a large extent we agree, then.
D/P have every right to try to make money from the Highlander franchise in
any way they can (it's their 'property' and, after all, with the greatest
respect to Messers S and P the only other film I know they have any
connection with is The Osterman Weekend and that wasn't exactly recent).
Whether fans feel that like a) Endgame and b) the Store.... they've been
misled and pretty much lied to on quite a large scale (bordering on legally
dubious) in the past, they'll feel like supporting another Highlander
venture remains to be seen. I'm doubtful it will happen or if it does be
done well, based on track-record, but I DO see some inate potential in
itself..... so I'm not going to campaign against it (pretty pointless as
Lynn says) or tear the concept apart, I'm just not going to actively cheer
my support either.
Like everything, time will tell
:)
John
- just a stage I'm going through.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Ashton7@aol.com>
To: <HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [HL] Highlander the musical
> In a message dated 4/13/02 5:06:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
>
> << To misquote the missing Mulder's famous poster.
>
> I Want to Believe. (or is that Disbelieve?)
> >>
>
> That's your perogative. Some people reach the limit of how far they are
> willing to stretch before they give up in disgust and start to feel
blatantly
> used simply *because* they are fans.
>
> Personally, to me, a HL musical sounds like a dreadful idea. It might turn
> out great. As someone who has been repeatedly disappointed by DPP in past
> years, though, I'm no longer willing to give them the benefit of the
doubt.
> If it turns out great, I'll be happy and no doubt want to see it. If it
turns
> out bad, I won't have wasted my time watching it and trying to believe in
it.
> THey no longer have my unquestioning support.
>
> Annie
>
> "Unless the last two years have been a wacky, wacky dream, I am a member
of
> SG-1." -- Dr. Daniel Jackson
> ****************
> Save Daniel Jackson: http://www.savedanieljackson.com
> Ashton Press: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/
> Fan Fiction: http://members.aol.com/pelkiepet/stories.htm
> Fanzines: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/zines.htm
> Gateway, A Stargate Slash Discussion/Fiction Group:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gateway/join
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:49:03 EDT
From: Ashton7@aol.com
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
In a message dated 4/13/02 8:36:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
<< so I'm not going to campaign against it (pretty pointless as
Lynn says) or tear the concept apart, I'm just not going to actively cheer
my support either.
>>
I think you see that happening though because the fans have loved and do love
the original concept of the series and, like anyone, they just reach a point
that they either get angry enough to want to speak up and DO something about
the fact that something they love has been taken from them... or they just
leave and move on to another fandom. Either way, the fans are no longer
supportive overall.
My opinion only, of course... doesn't that make the producers STUPID? Yes, of
course, they "own" the product. They can and do use it as they wish. The only
control "we" as fans have over that is by letting our opinions be known and
hope that they actually give a rat's ass whether or not they are pleasing
their audience. Since Hollywood (and/or Toronto/Vancouver, as is more likely
these days!) has shown that they probably *don't* give a rat's ass whether or
not they are pleasing their audience much of the time... I'm left wondering
who it is they do want to please? It remains a puzzlement to me.
Annie
"Unless the last two years have been a wacky, wacky dream, I am a member of
SG-1." -- Dr. Daniel Jackson
****************
Save Daniel Jackson: http://www.savedanieljackson.com
Ashton Press: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/
Fan Fiction: http://members.aol.com/pelkiepet/stories.htm
Fanzines: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/zines.htm
Gateway, A Stargate Slash Discussion/Fiction Group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gateway/join
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 07:58:25 -0500
From: Debra Douglass <ddoug@catrio.org>
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
On 4/13/2002, on HIGHLA-L@lists.psu.edu, John Mosby (B) wrote:
>>To a large extent we agree, then.
>>
>>D/P have every right to try to make money from the Highlander franchise in
>>any way they can (it's their 'property' and, after all, with the greatest
>>respect to Messers S and P the only other film I know they have any
>>connection with is The Osterman Weekend and that wasn't exactly recent).
Actually Davis/Panzer have done the following: Cat Chaser (1989),
Cutting Class (1989), King of the Wind (1989), and Freeway (1988). But
all that (and none of them are of any note) was between HLI and that
atrocity they produced in 1991 that I will not name.
But you are right, nothing in recent history, at least according to
the IMDB. They appear to be devoting all their energies to milking
Highlander for everything they can get out of it (IMHO).
You will recall in many spoofs the way to poke fun at something is to
turn it into a musical. That is the horror that many of us are
contemplating. We do not want our beloved universe to be held up to
ridicule.
Turning an idea into a musical is a double edged sword. It could work
or it could go down in flames. There doesn't seem to be any middle
ground. We are afraid that if D/P actually do produce Highlander as a
musical AND it flops that either that will be the end of it all or (a
more horrifying prospect) D/P will continue to try to continue trying
other ideas.
-Debbie
--
.------------------------------------------------------------------.
|Debra Douglass ddoug@catrio.org http://www.catrio.org|
`------------------------------------------------------------------'
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:22:08 +0100
From: "John Mosby (B)" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
It is a Catch 22 situation. I've lost count of the shows that went off in a
weird direction and shed viewers like dandruff. You can argue that this is
because of reliance on (faulty?) demographic concerns. The argument going:
if you want to make money, why not give us what we want and we'll support
you? Sounds easy.
The problem is that the process is never as clear as that. However
passionate a sub-group of a fandom may be, in the numbers-game they often
register as barely a blip of the total audience. I'm not an expert on
figures, but my guessitmation would be: Probably 85% of the viewing
popualtion didn't watch Highlander or Stargate. Probably about 70% of total
would have heard of them ("wasn't that a movie?") but only seen the
occassional episode. Maybe half might like it and tune in semi-regularly.
Maybe half of those would tape it or watch ir every week. Maybe half of
those would spend time with friends discussing it. Maybe half of those would
be on-line discussing it. Maybe half of those would dislike what they saw.
Maybe a handful of them would spend money on paper and stamp to write in and
say so. Suddenly, the numbers (and I was being kind) are very small and with
some justification a representative of the show in question is going to say
that.
E-mail campaigns never work. Writing campaigns sometimes give a stay if
execution but rarely have huge effects. Frequently, the wrong person is
targetted due to the average fan not having a decent knowledge of the chain
of command or the interests involved - or it's too late. The truth is that
no-one wants a duff series, but whether that leads to a comparative
financial strategy is another thing entirely.
Bluntly...I don't think Davis Panzer really know WHY Highlander
worked...which is fair enough because ask the fans and there will be a
thousand different reasons it worked for them as individuals and also they
have to appeal to potential new fans as well as the faithful. (But put 1000
fans in a hall and ask them WHY they liked the franchise's heart and there
will be some basics to work from). The reason that D/P have been getting
more flack than many PTB is in the presentation. The Highlander Store has
effectively lied to customers and is now refusing renumeration (I wish
someone that happened to was resilient enough to challenge that legally, as
I'm dying to know the legal justification behind the Store's stance).
Whether you liked the final film or not, Endgame was falsely advertised. The
logic of that is still lost on me. In short, fans are going: "Huh? Wait a
second here......." and feeling used.
Stargate I think is a slightly different example. Here the changes are being
made in story structure and the cast. There's no *false* advertising, just a
change in direction that a vocal part of the fandom has expressed concern
about. These changes were done for commercial reasons - whether you agree
they work(ed) or not. The further changes to come in Season Six are at the
behest of Sci-Fi. No changes, no purchase. No purchase, no series. Again,
I'm waiting to see how it turns out. TPTB are being pretty open about the
nature of the changes, but disagree on their impact. In short TPTB at SG-1
are being fairly honest but there is fan disagreement about the reasoning
behind them.
I trust SG-1 to deliver what it says it will (I might not like it as much
they hope I will, but I expect what I'm told will be facts peppered with
commercial hype). I, frankly, don't trust D/P to deliver with the same
frankness. I've been lied to and people I know have been cheated.
With SG-1 it's content you worry about. Frankly, with Highlander it's
conduct.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: <Ashton7@aol.com>
To: <HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [HL] Highlander the musical
> In a message dated 4/13/02 8:36:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
>
> << so I'm not going to campaign against it (pretty pointless as
> Lynn says) or tear the concept apart, I'm just not going to actively
cheer
> my support either.
> >>
>
> I think you see that happening though because the fans have loved and do
love
> the original concept of the series and, like anyone, they just reach a
point
> that they either get angry enough to want to speak up and DO something
about
> the fact that something they love has been taken from them... or they just
> leave and move on to another fandom. Either way, the fans are no longer
> supportive overall.
>
> My opinion only, of course... doesn't that make the producers STUPID? Yes,
of
> course, they "own" the product. They can and do use it as they wish. The
only
> control "we" as fans have over that is by letting our opinions be known
and
> hope that they actually give a rat's ass whether or not they are pleasing
> their audience. Since Hollywood (and/or Toronto/Vancouver, as is more
likely
> these days!) has shown that they probably *don't* give a rat's ass whether
or
> not they are pleasing their audience much of the time... I'm left
wondering
> who it is they do want to please? It remains a puzzlement to me.
>
> Annie
>
> "Unless the last two years have been a wacky, wacky dream, I am a member
of
> SG-1." -- Dr. Daniel Jackson
> ****************
> Save Daniel Jackson: http://www.savedanieljackson.com
> Ashton Press: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/
> Fan Fiction: http://members.aol.com/pelkiepet/stories.htm
> Fanzines: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/zines.htm
> Gateway, A Stargate Slash Discussion/Fiction Group:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gateway/join
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:48:42 EDT
From: Ashton7@aol.com
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
In a message dated 4/13/02 9:22:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
<< The further changes to come in Season Six are at the
behest of Sci-Fi. No changes, no purchase. No purchase, no series. Again,
I'm waiting to see how it turns >>
Hmmm. That's interesting... at the risk of going totally off-topic on a HL
list... but, yes, I'd say the fans are beng lied to yet again. Because Bonnie
Hammer and the SCIFI Channel have adamantly maintained (publically... in
press releases) that they requested absolutely NO cast or format changes in
Stargate. So, who's saying that they DID? Furthermore, the changes in
Stargate began two years ago... long before SCIFI Channel had ever agreed to
finance a 6th season of the show.
Annie
"Unless the last two years have been a wacky, wacky dream, I am a member of
SG-1." -- Dr. Daniel Jackson
****************
Save Daniel Jackson: http://www.savedanieljackson.com
Ashton Press: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/
Fan Fiction: http://members.aol.com/pelkiepet/stories.htm
Fanzines: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/zines.htm
Gateway, A Stargate Slash Discussion/Fiction Group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gateway/join
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:36:14 EDT
From: Bizarro7@aol.com
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
In a message dated 4/13/02 8:15:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Ashton7@aol.com
writes:
<< Personally, to me, a HL musical sounds like a dreadful idea. It might turn
out great. As someone who has been repeatedly disappointed by DPP in past
years, though, I'm no longer willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
If it turns out great, I'll be happy and no doubt want to see it. If it turns
out bad, I won't have wasted my time watching it and trying to believe in it.
THey no longer have my unquestioning support. >>
To sum up Annie's attitude in a nutshell, in which I'm in accord, "I am and
always will be a fan of the HL universe. But this time, they're going to have
to *earn* it first."
Leah
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:46:34 EDT
From: Bizarro7@aol.com
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
In a message dated 4/13/02 9:22:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
<< The problem is that the process is never as clear as that. However
passionate a sub-group of a fandom may be, in the numbers-game they often
register as barely a blip of the total audience. I'm not an expert on
figures, but my guessitmation would be: Probably 85% of the viewing
popualtion didn't watch Highlander or Stargate. Probably about 70% of total
would have heard of them ("wasn't that a movie?") but only seen the
occassional episode. >>
The recurring problem is obvious. In pursuit of an even larger audience, or a
different demographic, or some other goal, the series producers make a 'sharp
left turn' of some sort. And what happens to the viewership and the show is
precisely what happens when you make a sharp left turn in a pick-up, when you
have a loose cargo stacked in the truck bed.
Leah CWPack
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:05:38 +0200
From: Marina Bailey <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: Highlander: The Musical LYRICS!!!!!
Trilby <whap> <whap> <whap> wrote:
>Marina, hon, just for you:
>I love RITCHIE. I started watching HL around the middle of the 3rd
>season, and I didn't "get" RITCHEY at all, but after I saw the show
>from the first season on, RITCHEE really grew on me. I just love him.
Wait! You just said you LOVED Richie! So I'll have to take those whaps
back, even though you can't spell. <unwhap> *ow* <unwhap> *ow* <unwhap>
*ow* (Darn, taking whaps back hurts!!)
>(Was that enough?)
:)
- Marina.
\\ "I'm naming all the stars." ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// "You can't see the stars, love. That's the || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ ceiling. Also, it's day." - Drusilla & Spike ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//=====Marina Bailey====tmar@sifl.iid.co.za=====|| \\
\\==============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============//
"I went to Chulak, and all I got was this lousy Goa'uld." - Stargate
T-shirt idea.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:17:55 +0100
From: "John Mosby (B)" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
The complex aside to this problem is that a show that has *great* numbers, a
broad demographic, a massive audience and attracts great
advertising....doesn't get dramatically changed. Yes, there are some changes
and not all of them great (that's part of any evolution), but these are
often made under a different necessity - say actors leaving, contract
negotiations, changes in network policy etc. No show remains the same
forever, it evolves, but if it's doing well then it's often more of the
same. When ratings finally start to slip - bound to happen, always does -
then rather than show no faith in the product and can it immediately,
various interested parties look for ways to bolster the figures and
calculate their investment. Cast changes? Budget restraints? Story changes?
That's why popular shows undergo eventual dramatic changes and others just
disappear from schedules completely.
To bring a show back from the edge compromises are necessary. For Highlander
it was a curtailed season, limited access to Adrian Paul, a testing ground
for a possible spin-off. Hardly firm foundations, but ask many Highlander
fans whether they would have wanted this or NO season 6 and though the
result might be divided, I think most (particularly before the fact) would
have plumped for a continuationunder any circumstances.
Richie's death and Daniel's *ascension* were done at almost parallel points
in their franchises. Shanks left because he was unhappy (and for my money if
someone is unhappy on the set it's usually more complex a situation than any
fan will ever be fully aware of). Kirsch, though not too chuffed he was
being killed off, left under reasonably friendly circumstances as far as I
know and still maintains a good relationship with the cast and crew.
Both these exits were contentious and, ironically, raised the profile of
both shows beyond their fanbase - something that both production companies
must have been aware of. Ironiclaly, SG-1 has probably got more awareness
since Shank's departure, even if it hasn't been wholly positive. Have the
changes been dumb? Maybe, maybe not. But I doubt there wasn't much
discussion before any of the changes happened.
As Donna is wont to say, the day we have millions of dollars to invest in a
show, WE get to call the shots. The trick would be then...do we do what WE
want to see (and seems logical to us), what protects our investment (we
don't have unlimited funds to invest after all), what equal investors demand
we do or what about 5% of the viewing audience demands we do?
John
----- Original Message -----
From: <Bizarro7@aol.com>
To: <HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [HL] Highlander the musical
> In a message dated 4/13/02 9:22:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
>
> << The problem is that the process is never as clear as that. However
> passionate a sub-group of a fandom may be, in the numbers-game they often
> register as barely a blip of the total audience. I'm not an expert on
> figures, but my guessitmation would be: Probably 85% of the viewing
> popualtion didn't watch Highlander or Stargate. Probably about 70% of
total
> would have heard of them ("wasn't that a movie?") but only seen the
> occassional episode. >>
>
> The recurring problem is obvious. In pursuit of an even larger audience,
or a
> different demographic, or some other goal, the series producers make a
'sharp
> left turn' of some sort. And what happens to the viewership and the show
is
> precisely what happens when you make a sharp left turn in a pick-up, when
you
> have a loose cargo stacked in the truck bed.
>
> Leah CWPack
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:34:20 +0200
From: Marina Bailey <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
John wrote:
>To bring a show back from the edge compromises are necessary. For Highlander
>it was a curtailed season, limited access to Adrian Paul, a testing ground
>for a possible spin-off. Hardly firm foundations, but ask many Highlander
>fans whether they would have wanted this or NO season 6 and though the
>result might be divided, I think most (particularly before the fact) would
>have plumped for a continuationunder any circumstances.
You make some very good points, John. Which I actually agree with.
What I can't understand is that fans tend to condemn things before
even watching them (a point you made previously). I think that, in
some ways, we were lucky that Richie wasn't *replaced*, as is going
to happen in SG-1 (or so I've heard; I'm avoiding spoilers as much
as possible), as did happen in "Due South", "Beauty and the Beast"
and many other shows. Because replacing someone, no matter the
reason, always causes wedges in fandom. Always. But I don't see why
one should automatically hate a new character (and by extension
that character's fans), or feel the need to diss the original
character (and that character's fans) if one likes the new
character. Liking one doesn't mean one must hate the other. I can
like Richie and Nick (common ground = new immies) as well. I can
like Ray Vecchio as well as Ray Kowalski. I can like Catherine
as well as Diana. I can like a new season of a show despite
changes. And even if I don't, I will only make that judgement
after having seen it. (I did watch the sixth season.) (It still
had Duncan, Joe and Methos!)
So I will not dismiss a musical out of hand. I'll watch it first,
and be hopeful.
- Marina. (Who just realised she's sitting here typing this message
while wearing her Clan Denial T-shirt.) (Oh the irony.) <g>
\\ "I'm naming all the stars." ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// "You can't see the stars, love. That's the || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ ceiling. Also, it's day." - Drusilla & Spike ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//=====Marina Bailey====tmar@sifl.iid.co.za=====|| \\
\\==============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============//
"I went to Chulak, and all I got was this lousy Goa'uld." - Stargate
T-shirt idea.
------------------------------
End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 12 Apr 2002 to 13 Apr 2002 - Special issue (#2002-45)
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