There are 6 messages totalling 367 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Endgame- Spoilers- Upon rewatching (2) 2. Endgame- Spoilers- Upon rewatching above I forgot spoilers 3. Endgame - Chain Room 4. Endgame - Chain Room SPOILERS (2) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:31:02 EST From: Highlandmg@aol.com Subject: Re: Endgame- Spoilers- Upon rewatching OK Number 19 Matthew Need two Immortals he was going to shoot both of them and keep them in a different sanctuary. Mary ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:34:38 EST From: Highlandmg@aol.com Subject: Re: Endgame- Spoilers- Upon rewatching above I forgot spoilers OHHHHH I am sorry I forgot spoiler spaces ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:58:26 -1000 From: Geiger <geiger@maui.net> Subject: Re: Endgame- Spoilers- Upon rewatching Wendy-- >>> The nice thing about having a movie at home is the ability to watch over and over and over at one's leisure. The bad thing is that one can see the same "mistakes" over and over and over>>> Yes. This version clears up a few from the theater, but is also adds some new ones. Too many goofs to drink to each one--never make it through to the end conscious. Makes for a good game of kiss the cat, though. > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 7 > 8 > 9 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 7 > 8 > 9 > 0 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > So..I was rewatching Endgame and still came away with a hundred things that >either don't make sense or just plain bother me. I'll number them just for fun. I was surprised when I got to the end & you had just 24--it could have been a literal 100. >>> 1) Connor's comment to Duncan before Rachel explodes: "People change. You'll learn that." It makes it seem as if Duncan is much younger than Connor..rather than less than 75 years younger. It's not as if Duncan is a kid..nor is it like Duncan hasn't seen *lots* of people change. A small point but it bothered me.>>> Yes, it's like how Joe was so damned sure Kell was too much for DM--despite Joe knowing DM had disposed of the 4 Horsemen & Ahriman. So much about the movie didn't _mesh_ w/ the series--despite there being a writer in common. >>> 2) Rachel. Why did she go into the store when she found the door unlocked? When Connor didn't answer her - and the VCR was eerily playing old home movies - why didn't she realize something was amiss. Why did she seem so afraid of the telephone? Hadn't it never rung before- it *was* a store, wasn't it?>>> She had "victim" written all over her forehead. It was a nice homage to HL1 that they used her here, but making her even slightly clued in would have also made her a greater loss for CL & thus to the audience. > 3) Why didn't Connor feel Kell outside the shop when it exploded. Kell was standing > only a few yards away. These things (length of time an Immie stays dead, too) always seemed timed more for the writers' convenience than for logic. Why was Kell there, since he was risking his apparently cherished long-time anonymity? Was he there to gloat? Or to make sure CL wasn't inside for the explosion? If he'd been in there, he could well have lost his head in the blast, thus spoiling Kell's fun. As for that anonymity, wouldn't Kell have had more fun all along if CL had _known_ it was Kell stalking hm & killing his loved ones? Just seems odd, for Kell's character, to have kept a low profile for centuries. >>> 4)Glenfinnan 1555 Connor feels "something" just before Kell and the Priest enter his mother's house. But he doesn't know what. He says he felt it once before. Now..are we to take from this that Rameriz was remiss it explaining the Buzz to Connor? And..in fact..hadn't he felt it several times before (Rameriz *and* the Kurgan). After spending time with Rameriz..who did Connor *not* know that there was another Immortal outside the door?>>> Toss in Kell's cemetery comment about them both being new to the Game & missing the signs.... This issue was a mess in the theater release, & it's still a mess in the producers' cut. >>> 5) Sanctuary.All those years in business and they never installed an alarm system *inside* to warn of approaching hostiles? No steel doors? No guards behind bullet proof glass?>>> No need, if they were depending on being located on Holy Ground for protection.... Apparently, they weren't, but this leaves us w/ the Watchers being idiots. >>> 6)Why did Duncan get visions of the Sanctuary being destroyed while he was in Paris/London /wherever. *Connor* couldn't even see what was happening..so how could Duncan?>>> This bugged me in the theater release. HL doesn't need "visions" anyway & as usual gets into trouble adding on that sort of extraneous supernatural crap. Also, DM tells Methos he had the visions 10 years to the day that CM disappeared; that 10 yr. anniversary is totally irrelevant to anything in the plot, so it's a confusing red herring in an already convoluted story. > 8) How does Duncan have a flashback to the shop exploding when he wasn't there?> Another irksome factual thing that didn't get in someone's way putting this film together. >>> 10) The Watcher says things have changed- an Immortal (Kell) has gone renegade. Define renegade. Just what has Kell done that we haven't seen other Immortals do in the past? >>> It was the posse thing, I think. We saw Immie companions (Canadian & otherwise) hunting in pairs sometimes, but aside from the rather perverted hybrid arangement Horton & Xavier briefly had, I don't recall any packs. (Except for the motorcycle gang in that Raven ep centered on Liam, but they weren't all that involved in the Game, apparently--& Raven doesn't count anyway.) Packs aren't popular, probably, because it doesn't make sense for Immies to act that way--TCBOO, etc.; it's just too lilely that it'll end up exactly like it did in Endgame--messy. Not that I think the posse meant Kell was a super-power; I think it means he was a wimpy coward. But it scared the Watchers, including Joe, shitless, probably because as a group Watchers don't deal very well w/ change or the unexpected. > 11) If the Immortals in Sanctuary are drugged senseless all the time....why do they need restraints and eye guards? Why do they need eye guards at all? Don't forget the blue nose goo! The whole Sanctuary setup seemed an odd (or sloppy) mix of the creepily archaic & the medically advanced. >>> 12)When Duncan wants to see Connor's body- we see Duncan & Co. driving. Then we see Kell in NY at his cathedral.Then we see the guys arrive in the cemetery..and then a few minutes later Kell arrives. Can he fly?>>> Only in the 3rd trailer.... > 13)Kell really is a loon, isn't he. God, yes. W/ odd ears, too. >>> 16) Why did Kell levitate after whacking his 4 disciples..but not after whacking 11 Immortals in the Sanctuary?>>> It bothers me that we never see even a hint of what happened to Manny (the posse guy played by AP's sifu). I always get this picture of him, at the 1st sign of trouble, grabbing a loaf of bread & ducking under the table to quietly munch & ride out the BHgs & Qs. > 17) How did Kell manage to cut the necklace off Kate and *not* behead her? And why did he leave her alive?> Because he was a sucker for a happy ending? > 18) The JVC sign. Funny how they blocked it out in the long shots but had to leave it in for the close up. It is clearly visible hen Duncan and Connor talk before they fight.> Yes. > 19)What was up with the Watcher trying to kill Duncan? If he was so afraid of Kell winning..wouldn't killing *Kell* make more sense?> That's why that scene should have stayed on the cutting room floor. Shooting DM then would have allowed Kell to BH him & become even more powerful. (Kell might have let DM live to carry on the torture thingee, but Hale didn't know that.) The only thing that makes sense is Hale planned to shoot DM & recapture him for Sanctuary, so I wonder if that scene wasn't intended to be placed elsewhere--some other time that Hale was stalking DM after his Sanctuary escape. There's nothing about that scene that requires Hale to have been spying on the final fight. >>> 21) Why did Duncan stop to tie up an insignificant leg wound in the middle of a fight? He had already been gut-sliced and had both arms cut...have we ever seen an Immortal bother with field dressings during (or even after) a fight? Don't they just..heal?>>> Another example of the many times the movie seems unsure of how these basics work in Highlanderville. W/ GH one of the script writers, w/ BP (by all accounts) on set every moment, & w/ AP (the unofficial continuity master for HL:TS) right there too, I don't understand the confusion. That basic stuff should have been 2nd nature. Also, why does DM talk to himself during the tie-up-the-leg/remove-the-coat bit? > 22) Connor's grave. Did that look like the same place Heather was buried >originally? And I won't even mention the bad superimposement.Or the PEACE shirt. The whole scene is tacky. And laughable. > 24)This should have been up near the top - are there cathedrals for rent as apartments in NYC?> And do they all have attached power plants? In working order but w/ nary a soul around? > Wendy(Still and all, the hotsweatysexscene was nice) Yes, lots of the movie was nice. Lots wasn't. I really think the production problems, apparently caused by a combination of false economies & bad luck, doomed this project from the start. They rewrote & rewrote, then filmed over several months--here, there & everywhere. And it showed. Plus, "they" seemed to be concentrating on the wrong things. Did _anyone_ really notice & appreciate that DM fought in a certain style, while CL fought in another style that was related yet slightly different? I for one whould have prefered more attention to things like plot, characterization, continuity. Nina (did the DVD show more of AP's ending kata?) geiger@maui.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:52:45 -0800 From: Chris Almy <chrisalmy@yahoo.com> Subject: Endgame - Chain Room Among my many rants about the movie, this one may or not be answered on this list. Does anyone know if the room with all the chains hanging down would actually be a room found in a power station? I can't fathom any reason for such a room to exist other than the director thought it would look cool. ===== "The future is all around us, waiting in moments of transition to be born in moments of revelation." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:25:39 -1000 From: Geiger <geiger@maui.net> Subject: Re: Endgame - Chain Room SPOILERS ENDGAME SPOILERS > >> >S > >> >P > >> >O > >> >I > >> >L > >> >E > >> >R > >> >S > >> >F > >> >O > >> >R > >> >E > >> >N > >> >D > >> >G > >> >A > >> >M > >> >E > >> >B > >> >E > >> >L > >> >O > >> >W > >> >/ > >> >/ > Chris-- > Among my many rants about the movie, this one may or > not be answered on this list. Does anyone know if the > room with all the chains hanging down would actually > be a room found in a power station? I can't fathom any > reason for such a room to exist other than the > director thought it would look cool. The chains appear to operate several elevators. Now, exactly what sort of elevators would exist in that setting is beyond me. I'm still stuck on how come a cathedral under construction (& it's not HG because not yet consecrated, I assume) would be built both atop & below a working power plant. The reality, I think, is that the cathedral part of the final fight was filmed in Romania & then the power plant part in England, but still. Nina geiger@maui.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:31:08 EST From: Dotiran@aol.com Subject: Re: Endgame - Chain Room SPOILERS In a message dated 2/26/01 7:26:35 PM US Eastern Standard Time, geiger@maui.net writes: S P O I L E R S << The chains appear to operate several elevators. Yes, and Adrian Paul had mentioned prior to the release of the film that the chains were real metal and not plastic and that the swords kept getting caught up in them. ------------------------------ End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 26 Feb 2001 (#2001-82) ***********************************************