HIGHLA-L Digest - 8 Feb 2001 to 9 Feb 2001 (#2001-64)
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@LISTS.PSU.EDU)
Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:00:05 -0500
There are 8 messages totalling 322 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. No Director's Cut (2)
2. Eurominutes_Raven - Birthright (5)
3. Returning
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Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 09:32:30 -0500
From: "Claire L. Maier, Ph.D." <bioaw124@emory.edu>
Subject: Re: No Director's Cut
On Thu, 8 Feb 2001 Dotiran@aol.com wrote:
> In Response To a post entitled:
>
> Unfortunately, I fear there will never be a Director's cut.
> by
> (Godiva)
>
> [this response was posted on the forum today by Doug A.]
>
>
> Posted By: Doug <endgamedirector@aol.com>
> (IP: spider-wc024.proxy.aol.com)
> Date: Wednesday, 7 February 2001, at 8:23 p.m.
>
> Your fears are valid. I hope for the fans there will someday be cooler heads.
I find this response rather unprofessional. He doesn't get to do a
director's cut, therefore the people who didn't ask him to do it are
hotheads?
And frankly, I don't really care if there's a director's cut or not. Doug
A. may be the latest fan darling, but he's still a first time director and
relatively new to HL.
I'd be more interested in seeing Bill Panzer and Don Paonessa's cut,
without the time restrictions that were imposed for the theatrical
release.
--
Claire Maier, Ph.D. bioaw124@emory.edu CLMaier (within AOL only)
To be different is not necessarily to be ugly;
to have a different idea is not necessarily to be wrong.
The worst possible thing is for all of us to begin
to look and act and think alike.
-- Gene Roddenberry
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 09:51:22 -0500
From: "Claire L. Maier, Ph.D." <bioaw124@emory.edu>
Subject: Re: No Director's Cut
On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, Sue Mazzeo wrote:
> Many weeks ago on Holyground Forum, I posted a personal opinion about what happened
> to Endgame. John Mosby posted back that I should wait until Impact #108 was
> out to see what really happened. Well that has come out and I have read it
> and I still believe my original opinion has a real possibility of being true.
>
>
> The original opinion was that after almost two years of hasseling with Davis/Panzer
> and Adrian over the script for what eventually became Endgame, Miramax got what
> they thought was a script they could cut the way they wanted to get the action
> flic they originally wanted. Miramax went into the filming process knowing
> that much of what was to be filmed would not make the final film. It appears
> that even though Davis/Panzer had the contractual final cut, Miramax held the
> purse strings and final say on the release. It could have been that Miramax
> said something like "do it our way or it won't get released". In Impact #108,
> Bill Panzer states that Miramax had the final say in the edits. Doug A. states
> that Davis/Panzer had the final say. As the fans, we probably will never know
> the true story.
>From what I've been able to gather, Davis/Panzer got to produce the story
they wanted-- it was by Panzer & Horvath, with some concepts from an
earlier script by Eric Bernt (sp?). However, Miramax got to choose the
director and the location.
Panzer had the final edit, but apparently the running time (85 minutes)
was mandated by Miramax.
> Hopefully, one day, Doug A. will get to produce the file that was his vision.
> As someone who has seen the version that was cut for tax purposes, I think
> Doug A. would have produced a movie that would have made Miramax a much greater
> profit that the version that they dictated.
Doug A. would still have had the time constraints, which, IMHO, was the
biggest problem with the movie. I think that if Panzer had been allowed
to make a longer movie, it would have made a much bigger profit too.
--
Claire Maier, Ph.D. bioaw124@emory.edu CLMaier (within AOL only)
To be different is not necessarily to be ugly;
to have a different idea is not necessarily to be wrong.
The worst possible thing is for all of us to begin
to look and act and think alike.
-- Gene Roddenberry
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:34:13 -0500
From: jjswbt@earthlink.net
Subject: Eurominutes_Raven - Birthright
The entire 4 minutes of extra footage is devoted to one scene. It's actually fairly important - because it is a scene that many of us thought *should* be there..and wasn't (as far was we knew.) Now... I have some issues with it..but I'll discuss them at the end.
*********************
Birthright
Scene: Nick and Amanda look at the newspaper stories heralding the thief who rose from the dead and disappeared. Amanda and Nick discuss it, Amanda assures Nick that it wasn't another Immortal who tried to rob the auction house. Nick is sure she is hiding something. Fed up, Amanda walks away.
American: Cut to Nick walking into the "cop bar".
Euro: Cut to Amanda walking down the street, Nick following and closing on her.
N: "Wait a minute."
A: <looking back> "What?"
N:" You're not getting off so easily."
A:"What are you going to do? Arrest me? I don't have to answer to you or anyone else."
N: "Why do you do it?"
A: "Why do I do what?"
N: "After all this time - why are you still just a thief?"
A:"Why are you still just a cop?"
N:"I'm not. You could be anything. Something better. In 1200 years you could have been anything you wanted."
Close-up on Amanda..and cut to flashback. It is a series of images from HL:TS episodes:
1) Man paints "X" on plague house door. Amanda exits house with loaf of bread and is chased.("Legacy")
2) Amanda tries to steal Rebecca's crystal ("Legacy")
3) Amanda happily steals the Baron's jewels ("Lady and the Tiger")
4) Amanda smiles as she steals the Cross of St. Antoine ("Cross of St. Antoine")
5 )Amanda and Cory on their cross country spree. The Keystone Cop chase scenes followed by various "still" shots of Amanda hamming it up with her machine gun, Bonny& Clyde style.("Money No Object")
6)Amanda suspended mid-air stealing the book in Paris ("Lady and the Tiger")
Cut back to Amanda and Nick on the street.
A: "That's your perspective on history."
N: "That's the truth."
A: " The truth. Let me tell you about the truth. It's an overvalued commodity. It changes with perspective and it mutates with time."
<Nick gives her a cynical chuckle>
A:"What are you laughing at?"
N: "You bob and weave better than Ali in his prime. Why don't you just answer the question? Why <beat> do<beat> you<beat> do<beat> it?"
A:"You wouldn't understand."
N:"Try me."
A:"Do you know what they called women in the Middle Ages who tried to better their lives? Who demanded respect? They called them witches and burned them at the stake. Now the *men* who travelled from town to town selling their services - they were called knights errant or ronin or mercenaries. The women...they were called whores."
N:"Spoken like a true con. It wasn't my fault. My mother didn't like me. I had a bad childhood. My father drank. That's why I killed those people while robbing the gas station."
A:<fed up>You're right! You win! I steal because I like it. See ya around. <she walks away mad>
Cut to Nick entering the cop bar.
**********************************
Now..I admit it's a nice scene. I'm glad that someone..somewhere.... finally asked Amanda why she was "still just a thief" after 1200 years. I had hoped, of course, that TPTB might choose to show us that she *hadn't* been a thief all that time..that she had lots of other occupations. But no.
And..I thought her explanation was ..well...crap.
OK..in 850AD her options were certainly limited. But there *were* other things to do besides steal. Once she met Rebecca...once she knew she was Immortal....she certainly knew there were other options. Rebecca wasn't a whore and she wasn't a thief and she was a woman of substance. Certainly as the years went on....Amanda had to have had options..had she wanted to use them. There was a whole world to travel in and a thousand different people she could be. But all we ever see her as is a thief. Plus..the scenes they used to demonstrate her background show that she *did* enjoy it...the fun of stealing the Baron's jewels... the wild crazy spree with Cory..the shiver of delight as she lifted the Cross. She *is* using her rotten childhood 1200 years ago to justify still being a thief *now*- and it doesn't wash, for me.
Wendy(I had forgotten how smitten Nick was her by this point.)(And, alas..the bare naked scene in the bathtub does not continue in the Eurominutes.)(We could have compared Duncan's butt to Nick's.)
Fairy Killer
jjswbt@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jjswbt/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 20:47:11 -0000
From: Jette Goldie <jette@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Eurominutes_Raven - Birthright
> Wendy(I had forgotten how smitten Nick was her by this point.)(And,
alas..the bare naked scene in the bathtub does not continue in the
Eurominutes.)(We could have compared Duncan's butt to Nick's.)
And if only ONE of the versions had let us see the mysterious
tattoo! ;-)
Jette
Glory may be fleeting, but obscurity is forever!
bosslady@scotlandmail.com
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fanfic.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:56:01 -1000
From: Geiger <geiger@maui.net>
Subject: Re: Eurominutes_Raven - Birthright
Wendy--
> Birthright
What happened to So Shall Ye Reap? (See--I'm paying attention!)
> Close-up on Amanda..and cut to flashback. It is a series of images from
HL:TS
> episodes:
Oh. I hate that. Raven should have shot its own FB scenes, IMNSHO.
>>> OK..in 850AD her options were certainly limited. But there *were* other
things to do besides steal. Once she met Rebecca...once she knew she was
Immortal....she certainly knew there were other options. Rebecca wasn't a
whore and she wasn't a thief and she was a woman of substance. Certainly as
the years went on....Amanda had to have had options..had she wanted to use
them. There was a whole world to travel in and a thousand different people
she could be. But all we ever see her as is a thief. Plus..the scenes they
used to demonstrate her background show that she *did* enjoy it...the fun of
stealing the Baron's jewels... the wild crazy spree with Cory..the shiver of
delight as she lifted the Cross. She *is* using her rotten childhood 1200
years ago to justify still being a thief *now*- and it doesn't wash, for
me.>>>
Not for me, either. Someone not changing much in a mortal lifetime is sad
enough. Amanda not changing or growing in 1200 years (while the world
changed utterly around her) is pathetic & strains credulity.
I think this was the ep I first noticed that the cop car always shown
outside the police station in _all_ the Raven eps has the same number on the
door--an example of a careless choice in establishing shots. Also, when/how
did Simon-not-Charlie DeSalvo take the lame
mystery-drug-that-mimics-death--before or after he dove into the lake--& why
would he be carrying it??? My fav goof is watching Nick (& he _is_ nice to
watch there) winching Amanda down for the heist, w/ both his hands very
busy, yet he has a spare hand to use the walkie/talkie & chat--twice.
> >>(And, alas..the bare naked scene in the bathtub does not continue in the
Eurominutes.)(We could have compared Duncan's butt to Nick's.)>>.
Nah--apples & oranges.
Nina
geiger@maui.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:50:51 -0500
From: jjswbt@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Eurominutes_Raven - Birthright
>> Wendy(I had forgotten how smitten Nick was her by this point.)(And,
>alas..the bare naked scene in the bathtub does not continue in the
>Eurominutes.)(We could have compared Duncan's butt to Nick's.)
Jette:
>And if only ONE of the versions had let us see the mysterious
>tattoo! ;-)
Yeah..damn straight! And they never mention it again ...so we are left forever wondering what it could be.
Wendy (Raven would have been better with butt shots.)(And headboard rattling)
Fairy Killer
jjswbt@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jjswbt/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:54:52 +1100
From: Shaun Hately <drednort@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Returning
I'm not sure if anyone around here will remember me, but I used to be on
the list up until a couple of years ago, before despairing of ever seeing
anything new here in Australia, and faced with the awful need to devote
some time to study, I vanished. Finally, now, I have access to a channel
that can and will be rerunning all Highlander episodes (and Raven) and so
I have decided to renew my acquaintance with the series.
I just though I'd pop up in case anybody remembered me.
Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
|drednort@alphalink.com.au, drednort@au.mensa.org
|ICQ: 6898200
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in
common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter
the facts to fit the views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen
to be one of the facts that need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who:
The Face of Evil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 23:09:07 -0000
From: Jette Goldie <jette@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Eurominutes_Raven - Birthright
> Wendy (Raven would have been better with butt shots.)(And headboard
rattling)
I can't argue with that!!!
Jette
(PJ seems very shy about *that* tattoo - considering that half the
fannish world knows it exists, maybe he should just come clean
to his fanclub <g>)
Glory may be fleeting, but obscurity is forever!
bosslady@scotlandmail.com
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fanfic.html
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 8 Feb 2001 to 9 Feb 2001 (#2001-64)
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