HIGHLA-L Digest - 7 Feb 2001 to 8 Feb 2001 (#2001-63)
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@LISTS.PSU.EDU)
Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:00:01 -0500
There are 10 messages totalling 572 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. No Director's Cut (4)
2. Fan fiction trades. (2)
3. Eurominutes_Raven - So Shall Ye Reap
4. YKYBWTMHW...
5. Eurominutes_Raven - Immunity (2)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 07:57:17 EST
From: Dotiran@aol.com
Subject: No Director's Cut
In Response To a post entitled:
Unfortunately, I fear there will never be a Director's cut.
by
(Godiva)
[this response was posted on the forum today by Doug A.]
Posted By: Doug <endgamedirector@aol.com>
(IP: spider-wc024.proxy.aol.com)
Date: Wednesday, 7 February 2001, at 8:23 p.m.
Your fears are valid. I hope for the fans there will someday be cooler heads.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:36:01 -0500
From: jjswbt@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: No Director's Cut
>In Response To a post entitled:
>Unfortunately, I fear there will never be a Director's cut.
>by(Godiva)
>Posted By: Doug <endgamedirector@aol.com>
>(IP: spider-wc024.proxy.aol.com)
>Date: Wednesday, 7 February 2001, at 8:23 p.m.
>
>Your fears are valid. I hope for the fans there will someday be cooler heads.
So...I take it that David A. had nothing to do with the "new" version of the movie that is being released on the DVD? I wonder what *that* means..if anything.
Did David A. have a different "vision" of Endgame that isn't captured in either the "released" version or the "new" version?
Wendy (And why do I still care.)(Masochist!)
Fairy Killer
jjswbt@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jjswbt/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:25:55 EST
From: Dotiran@aol.com
Subject: Re: No Director's Cut
In a message dated 2/8/01 10:34:58 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
jjswbt@earthlink.net writes:
<< So...I take it that David A. had nothing to do with the "new" version of
the movie that is being released on the DVD?
Correct
<<< I wonder what *that* means..if anything.
Books could be written.
Awhile back Doug A. had posted this on ATH
"Hello and I hope everyone is well.
I have been receiving a massive amount of feedback regarding Endgame. The
overwhelming majority of the inquires have been about a 'Directors Cut' of
the movie. As many of you are probably well aware, there is a version of the
movie that is for sale on the Internet. A reporter from the UK sent me a copy
of this version. After careful viewing and speaking with my editor Chris
Blunden, we have devised that this bootleg version is an earlier cut that
Chris and myself had worked on in England.
The movie has obviously gone through a number of cuts and re-cuts, as movies
do. Here are the facts, plain and simple:
1. The theatrical release version is the vision of Panzer/Davis, who had
final cut and total authority.
2. The theatrical release was edited, scored and mixed with no substanitive
input from myself or my editor, Chris Blunden. Panzer and Davis took the
film over in post-production, after only having been actually present on set
a total ten days. Two days for Peter Davis and eight days for Bill Panzer,
out of 58 shooting days.
3. Miramax did not have final cut, Panzer/Davis did.
4. Miramax is interested in having me do a "directors cut" for DVD, which I
will consider, if I can really do my version of the film. We'll see what
happens next.
Highlander fans are some of the most supportive and loyal fans in the world,
and I hope someday that you'll all get to see my version of Endgame - I
worked incredibly hard to make sure it's something you would enjoy. And since
I never got to score, mix, or complete the special effects for my "directors
cut", it would of course be a thrill for me to see it through to
fruition.
Feel free to contact me at this e-mail address if you have other questions or
comments, about the film and thanks again for your support.
Douglas Aarniokoski
The E-mail address is EndGameDirector@aol.com.
In a second letter, Doug States:
I am working on a directors cut which will also feature a "The Making of" -
50 minute documentary "directors diary" including behind the scenes footage,
interviews with the actors, training scenes, and a time line that traces the
production from the script I first read until release. In this case (although
it's true
for all films) it was an especially curvy road with many twists and turns,
and I think the fans will find it all interesting.
Please also feel free to post the email address : EndGameDirector@aol.com for
anyone who wants to write to me about the film, the directors cut for DVD, or
anything else they'd like to see."
______________
However, from this post today on the Rysher Holyground forum it sounds like
his great plans for this directors cut are not going to work out. I hope he's
wrong.
I am told he has a great deal of footage on hand. Sigh. I want to see it all.
For more interesting "takes" on the saga of Endgame hitting the theaters read
Issue #108 of Impact magazine.
Peace !
Dorothy
aka Rottweiler
[AP: Rottweilers? "I like their intelligence. I like their strength
and their faithfulness. I also like their affectionate nature." (AOL chat)]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:11:43 -0800
From: Stephen Bryce <sibryce@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fan fiction trades.
Does anyone have any fan fiction that they'd like to
share, on this list?
I'd like to break the ice, by telling you about my own
series of fiction, called "Highlander: The Legacy".
It takes place in the mid-21st century, and the main
character is an Immortal named Ross Keller, who took
his first death around our timeframe. A noteable
mention is that the explanation that I use here, for
The Gathering, is a little more flexible, and allows
the films and T.V. shows to co-exist (relatively
speaking, of course).
You can find my stories on this web page:
http://www.geocities.com/sibryce/writings/htl/index.htm
Please, take a look at them, and let me know what you
think.
Steve Bryce
=====
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:19:19 GMT
From: Sue Mazzeo <smazzeo@jps.net>
Subject: Re: No Director's Cut
Many weeks ago on Holyground Forum, I posted a personal opinion about what happened
to Endgame. John Mosby posted back that I should wait until Impact #108 was
out to see what really happened. Well that has come out and I have read it
and I still believe my original opinion has a real possibility of being true.
The original opinion was that after almost two years of hasseling with Davis/Panzer
and Adrian over the script for what eventually became Endgame, Miramax got what
they thought was a script they could cut the way they wanted to get the action
flic they originally wanted. Miramax went into the filming process knowing
that much of what was to be filmed would not make the final film. It appears
that even though Davis/Panzer had the contractual final cut, Miramax held the
purse strings and final say on the release. It could have been that Miramax
said something like "do it our way or it won't get released". In Impact #108,
Bill Panzer states that Miramax had the final say in the edits. Doug A. states
that Davis/Panzer had the final say. As the fans, we probably will never know
the true story.
Hopefully, one day, Doug A. will get to produce the file that was his vision.
As someone who has seen the version that was cut for tax purposes, I think
Doug A. would have produced a movie that would have made Miramax a much greater
profit that the version that they dictated.
Sue Mazzeo
>In a message dated 2/8/01 10:34:58 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>jjswbt@earthlink.net writes:
>
><< So...I take it that David A. had nothing to do with the "new" version of
>the movie that is being released on the DVD?
>
>Correct
>
><<< I wonder what *that* means..if anything.
>
>Books could be written.
>
>Awhile back Doug A. had posted this on ATH
>
>"Hello and I hope everyone is well.
>I have been receiving a massive amount of feedback regarding Endgame. The
>overwhelming majority of the inquires have been about a 'Directors Cut' of
>the movie. As many of you are probably well aware, there is a version of the
>movie that is for sale on the Internet. A reporter from the UK sent me a copy
>of this version. After careful viewing and speaking with my editor Chris
>Blunden, we have devised that this bootleg version is an earlier cut that
>Chris and myself had worked on in England.
>The movie has obviously gone through a number of cuts and re-cuts, as movies
>do. Here are the facts, plain and simple:
>1. The theatrical release version is the vision of Panzer/Davis, who had
>final cut and total authority.
>2. The theatrical release was edited, scored and mixed with no substanitive
>input from myself or my editor, Chris Blunden. Panzer and Davis took the
>film over in post-production, after only having been actually present on set
>a total ten days. Two days for Peter Davis and eight days for Bill Panzer,
>out of 58 shooting days.
>3. Miramax did not have final cut, Panzer/Davis did.
>4. Miramax is interested in having me do a "directors cut" for DVD, which I
>will consider, if I can really do my version of the film. We'll see what
>happens next.
>Highlander fans are some of the most supportive and loyal fans in the world,
>and I hope someday that you'll all get to see my version of Endgame - I
>worked incredibly hard to make sure it's something you would enjoy. And since
>I never got to score, mix, or complete the special effects for my "directors
>cut", it would of course be a thrill for me to see it through to
>fruition.
>Feel free to contact me at this e-mail address if you have other questions
or
>comments, about the film and thanks again for your support.
>Douglas Aarniokoski
>The E-mail address is EndGameDirector@aol.com.
>In a second letter, Doug States:
>I am working on a directors cut which will also feature a "The Making of" -
>50 minute documentary "directors diary" including behind the scenes footage,
>interviews with the actors, training scenes, and a time line that traces the
>production from the script I first read until release. In this case (although
>it's true
>for all films) it was an especially curvy road with many twists and turns,
>and I think the fans will find it all interesting.
>Please also feel free to post the email address : EndGameDirector@aol.com for
>anyone who wants to write to me about the film, the directors cut for DVD,
or
>anything else they'd like to see."
>______________
>However, from this post today on the Rysher Holyground forum it sounds like
>his great plans for this directors cut are not going to work out. I hope he's
>wrong.
>I am told he has a great deal of footage on hand. Sigh. I want to see it all.
>
>For more interesting "takes" on the saga of Endgame hitting the theaters read
>Issue #108 of Impact magazine.
>
>Peace !
>Dorothy
>aka Rottweiler
>[AP: Rottweilers? "I like their intelligence. I like their strength
>and their faithfulness. I also like their affectionate nature." (AOL chat)]
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:37:24 -0500
From: Debra Douglass <ddoug@catrio.org>
Subject: Re: Fan fiction trades.
On 2/8/2001, on HIGHLA-L@lists.psu.edu, Stephen Bryce wrote:
>>Does anyone have any fan fiction that they'd like to
>>share, on this list?
(snip)
>>You can find my stories on this web page:
>>http://www.geocities.com/sibryce/writings/htl/index.htm
>>
>>Please, take a look at them, and let me know what you
>>think.
Just to remind everyone that you should not post fiction to HIGHLA-L.
URLs, like Steve did here, are just fine but all story posts should go
to the Highlander Fiction list, HLFIC-L.
You sign up and post to HLFIC-L just like you do for HIGHLA-L. Just
substitute HLFIC-L for HIGHLA-L.
-Debbie
(list owner)
--
.------------------------------------------------------------------.
|Debra Douglass ddoug@catrio.org http://www.catrio.org|
`------------------------------------------------------------------'
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 17:19:33 -0500
From: jjswbt@earthlink.net
Subject: Eurominutes_Raven - So Shall Ye Reap
Most of Charlie's character development seems to have ended up in the Eurominutes - continuing a fine old HL tradition.
**********************
So Shall Ye Reap
Scene 1: The first time Amanda and Nick have go to see Charlie at the nursing home. Charlie has laid out his belief that his son was killed, getting more agitated as he goes on.
American:
Charlie: "Those sons of bitches killed my son!" He gets up and walks away. Cut to him outside sitting on a bench with Amanda, Nick standing.
Charlie"You know what they tell me here? Take your medicine......"
Euro:
Charlie: "Those sons of bitches killed my son!" He gets up and walks away. Cut to the outside. Amanda and Nick steady Charlie as he walks across the garden lawn.
Charlie: "Three days. Three days and he was going to be married. Beautiful girl. Smart too...just like you, Amanda. You know what else, Amanda? He asked me to be his best man."
Amanda: "He loved you, Charlie."
Charlie : "Yeah, I know that." <They arrive at bench and sit down.> You know, for a long time, we didn't talk. My fault. Then they killed him.<pause> You know what they tell me here? Take your medicine..."
Scene 2: End of the same scene at nursing home. Cuts between Amanda talking to Charlie and Goon 1 in car, eavesdropping. Goon 1 is on radio to female Goon 2 .
American:
Amanda: "If someone killed your son, we'll find them."
Goon 1: "Looks like Charlie found someone to believe him."
Goon 2 <V.O.> "Who are they?"
Goon 1 : "How the hell should I know? See what they're driving and find out"
Cut to Amanda and Nick walking.
Euro:
Amanda: "If someone killed your son, we'll find them."
Goon 1: "Looks like Charlie found someone to believe him."
Goon 2 <V.O.> "Who are they?"
Goon 1 : "How the hell should I know? See what they're driving and find out"
Goon2 <V.O.> "I already put in 10 hours."
Goon 1: "My heart bleeds for you. Don't make any plans for the weekend."
Goon 2 <V.O.>"There goes my son's soccer game"
Goon 1: "Don't tell me about your son. My wife is gonna kill me. It's her mother's birthday."
Cut to Amanda and Nick walking.
Scene 3: At Dr. Shiller's house. Amanda and Nick have walked right in and are looking for the Doctor. In the kitchen, everything is a mess.
American:
Amanda: "Maybe the good doctor had a case of spring cleaning."
They hear a gunshot. They move toward the back door. Cut to Amanda coming out the patio door. Dr. Shiller is dead at the table.
Euro:
They hear a gunshot. Amanda heads to the kitchen window to look into the backyard (where the sound of the shot came from) Nick is right behind her, in a crouch (below window level) , gun pulled.
Nick: "Get down!!"
Amanda <still standing> Why?
Nick <in disbelief> Why? Why? <resigned> Why."
Amanda moves away from the window. Nick stands up and looks out. We see Shiller, from behind, slumped at the table - gun clearly visible in his outstretched hand.
Nick. "Why." He moves after Amanda. Cut to Amanda coming out the patio door. Dr. Shiller is dead at the table.
Scene 4: Boss Goon leans on Charlie, reminds him that "accidents" can still happen. Cut to outside of Amanda's apartment, then to Charlie.
American:
Charlie : "It was a mistake, an accident. Just like they said."
Euro:
Charlie: " I'm the one who convinced Chuck to stay out of the spy business. You're smarter than your old man, I told him. Be a doctor..be a scientist..be someone who knows he'll make it home to his wife and kids every night. <cut to Amanda and Nick listening> It was a mistake, an accident. Just like they said."
Scene 5: Back at Dr. Shiller's
During the fight with Feds..Nick shoots it out with one Goon while Amanda fights another. The Euro version shows more of Amanda's fight as she goes Kung Fu on the fed.
Scene 6: Amanda, Nick and Charlie escape the nursing home in the stolen hearse. ..
American
Cut to
Charlie: Truth is....you can't hide from these guys"
Euro:
Cut to hearse on highway. Then to Amanda, driving.
Amanda: I wish I knew where we were going"
Charlie. :They'll have both your places staked out. You can bet on that. Truth is..you can't hide from these guys....
Scene 7: Nick places call to the reporter. Cut to jail cell.
American:
Close up on Nick.
Nick: " How long were you with the Agency?"
Euro:
Cut to jail cell. Nick sitting on floor, back to bars. Amanda on bed/bench, eyes closed as if asleep. Charlie sitting next to Amanda, drinking coffee from a small paper cup. He finishes the coffee and very methodically folds the cup into a small "ball". He tosses it suddenly at Nick, who catches it easily.
Charlie: "Bet you lettered in 2 sports in high school."
Nick: "Three."
Nick tosses the cup back to Charlie. Charlie pretends to throw a baseball. Cut to Amanda still pretending to sleep while, in fact, listening to the guys "bond"
Charlie: "Chuck never liked sports. Mostly because I liked them so much, I guess."
Nick: "How long were you with the Agency?"
************************
That's it. I was hoping we'd see or hear a bit more about Amanda and Charlie's relationship over the years..But alas...no.
Wendy(The mind still boggles at the idea of putting enough estrogen into grain to act as an effective birth control.)(Surely someone would catch on.)(Like when the wave of feminized males hit doctors offices all over the developing world?)(Bullets are cheaper.)(And more effective.)
Fairy Killer
jjswbt@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jjswbt/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:29:57 -0500
From: jjswbt@earthlink.net
Subject: YKYBWTMHW...
...a character on "Dark Angel" asks if anyone knows what "defenestration" means....and you do.
Wendy (Look out below.....................)
Fairy Killer
jjswbt@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jjswbt/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:44:27 -1000
From: Geiger <geiger@maui.net>
Subject: Re: Eurominutes_Raven - Immunity
Wendy--
>>> This episode has one of my favorite Raven lines. Amanda is complaining
that Nick shot Collier. Nick says.."It isn't like I killed him. More
like...Immortalus Interruptus" Ok..ok..not Shakespeare but it made me smile.
(Egads I'm easily amused sometimes!)>>>
Well, that helps w/ Raven. My fav line here was about Amanda from
Bert--"She's a criminal. She's blond. She's a blond criminal." That
really does sum her up.
> 2) Scene: Amanda shopping
It would have been nice to see her actually select merchandise, harangue the
clerks, require help slithering into a tight dress, steal stuff, commit
credit card fraud, whatever is involved in the mechanics of Amanda shopping.
And it would have been more interesting than a lot of what we _did_ see
here.
>>> 4) Scene: Amanda and Nick at the embassy party. They are looking for the
room with the safe. They have just spotted the door when Security sees them.
Nick grabs Amanda and kisses her.>>>
And it looked so, um, distasteful to both. Wonder if it was the actors'
reaction showing through.
> Amanda (voice over) "Ms. Antenesque needs to get her ass in gear"
They cut THAT!!! Oh, sorry--premature.
The intended N.A. locale for Raven always bothered me. Chicago? Buffalo?
All the American flags strewn around lets out Canada (sorry Johanne). Here,
out of the blue, Amanda just knows Marta will take a helicopter to Bermuda,
then a jet to Bucharest. From what NE US city do folks regularly take a
_helicopter_ to Bermuda?
> Wendy (Somewhere..in 22 episodes..there *has* to be one Eurominute that
makes me scream "You cut THAT!!!")(Right?)(Right?)(Come on...encourage me.)
We all have our dreams.
Nina
geiger@maui.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 21:03:52 -0500
From: jjswbt@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Eurominutes_Raven - Immunity
I said:
>>>> 4) Scene: Amanda and Nick at the embassy party. They are looking for the
>room with the safe. They have just spotted the door when Security sees them.
>Nick grabs Amanda and kisses her.>>>
Nina remarks:
>And it looked so, um, distasteful to both. Wonder if it was the actors'
>reaction showing through.
This brings up an interesting point. At one of the last conventions (G5? Legacy?) EG said that she had been told some "terrible" things about PJ before Raven ever started and that she, therefore, treated him very badly until she realized that what she had been told was not true. Leaving aside the obvious question as to why a "professional" would treat another profession (and a stranger at that) badly based on gossip....I wonder how much of an effect this had on the whole "chemistry" issue.
>The intended N.A. locale for Raven always bothered me. Chicago? Buffalo?
>All the American flags strewn around lets out Canada (sorry Johanne). Here,
>out of the blue, Amanda just knows Marta will take a helicopter to Bermuda,
>then a jet to Bucharest. From what NE US city do folks regularly take a
>_helicopter_ to Bermuda?
Well...I suppose you could take a helicopter from...Savannah?
OK..let's face it..there was no way Amanda would have guessed helicopter...no way in hell.
>> Wendy (Somewhere..in 22 episodes..there *has* to be one Eurominute that
>makes me scream "You cut THAT!!!")(Right?)(Right?)(Come on...encourage me.)
>
>We all have our dreams.
There is a rather nice one in "Birthright"...4 minutes all in one scene.
Wendy (Still dreaming of secret headboard rattling in later episodes.)
Fairy Killer
jjswbt@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jjswbt/index.html
------------------------------
End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 7 Feb 2001 to 8 Feb 2001 (#2001-63)
************************************************************