HIGHLA-L Digest - 15 Jun 2004 to 16 Jun 2004 (#2004-109)
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@lists.psu.edu)
Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:00:03 -0400
There are 20 messages totalling 703 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Highla-L Under Attack (was Re:Touching Evil (was-- The Innocent) (3)
2. Touching Evil (was-- The Innocent)
3. Highla-L Under Attack (5)
4. Highlander crossover on Cartoon Network (of sorts) (3)
5. Holy-er than thou? (7)
6. Amanda
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 22:12:43 -0400
From: Susan Drake <sueamanda@alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Highla-L Under Attack (was Re:Touching Evil (was-- The Innocent)
I too am a lurker. I love this list and also look here for news and
such. Best Sueamanda
On Jun 15, 2004, at 9:51 PM, Highlandmg@aol.com wrote:
> Rachel
>
> I will not let any one person drive me from any list I am on. I agree
> with
> every thing you have said. Where is Debbie? Does this person want the
> list to
> shut down? I believe she does. I have been here a long time also and
> for
> someone to say they are a fan but have nothing good to say or jump on
> some ones
> post. I mostly lurk now but she will not drive me of this list. John
> you are also
> on some lists I am on. BUT I want to know any news. I look forward to
> knowing
> about future Highlander TV/movie shows please keep posting here. I
> look
> forward to it.
>
> Mary
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 17:42:10 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Touching Evil (was-- The Innocent)
About less-than glowing reviews for Touching Evil Rottie asked--
> I didn't find any , could you show me the way?
I'm kinda busy right now, but try looking someplace other than a show's
promo page, if you really are interested in a balanced view.
and--
>You are always asking for a *discussion* but can it not exist without
vituperativeness?
I wouldn't know how a discussion w/ YOU would go, as you never _discuss_
anything. For you, everything just IS--morality, evil, etc. It is all just
handily mandated to you & yours as absolutes. So, Jeffrey Donovan just IS
"brilliant." Ok....
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 17:43:10 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Highla-L Under Attack (was Re:Touching Evil (was-- The Innocent)
Rachel--
> But lately, I've been sorely tempted to just sign
> off completely & say 'to hell with it" because of this angry, mean
> person.
I really think you are being a bit hard on Rottie. No one is perfect....
>>> I'll probably get flamed to hell & gone for this post, but you know
what? I don't give a shit & I bet there's lots of people here that
feel the same way I do, whether they've been here as long as I have
or not. I realize everyone has the right to express their own
opinion/s here, but this just seems ridiculous & obstructing to
intelligent & interesting discussions, imho.>>>
How very vituperative of you.
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 00:25:37 -0400
From: Wendy Tillis <immortals_incorporated@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Highla-L Under Attack (was Re:Touching Evil (was-- The Innocent)
Rachel is fed up:
> I've
>been a member of this list since 1995 and would like to stay "until
>the lights go out". But lately, I've been sorely tempted to just sign
>off completely & say 'to hell with it" because of this angry, mean
>person.
There are better ways than leaving to deal with a fellow Listee who annoys you. Ignore them. Bite back. Ridicule from the sidelines. All perfectly good options.
>- I am totally sick to death of it & feel that one of my oldest (&
>most favorite) lists just sucks big-time now; it's nothing like it
>used to be. And it's all due to this one person
Yes, it isn't like it used to be. No, it isn't *all* due to one person.
HL is over. (yeah, yeah, mini-series to follow) It's been over for years. Sure, there are Lists where long dead topics are discussed with ever-renewed fervor but we here are in a serious dry spell. We've been through first-run excitement, second-run rehash, third-run nit-picking. We've had remembrances, recollections, retellings, re-reviews etc. Most of us can operate by shorthand now: "Cassandra. Victim. Finger nails. Justified. Child seducer. Get over it. Bitch." What once took weeks of carefully crafted discussion and debate reduced to 11 words.
As for one person spoiling a List..they can't. Not unless everyone else lets them.
>since everyone knows
>the minute they post something, they'll be under attack.
I don't get attacked, so it's not "everyone" but ... point taken. One determined person can cause a fair amount of stir on a list...but with kill files and filtering and a good dose of "I can't see you", these things can be managed.
>I don't read
>any of this person's posts anymore (they're filtered straight to the
>trash), but of course they still crop up in other people's replies,
>as this one did.
It's still a relatively free country (insert liberal rant here) and Nina (and everyone else ) has a right to express her opinions. (until Debbie says otherwise) You don't have to read her posts. You can ignore those portions of her posts which make it into other peoples' posts. You can just not answer. You can leap to the defense of the downtrodden. You can post stories containing thinly veiled personal attacks on those you detest. Scornful poetry with an OBHLRef would be fun. There are lots of ways of turning these lemons into citrus flavored anti-personnel mines.
>I realize everyone has the right to express their own
>opinion/s here, but this just seems ridiculous & obstructing to
>intelligent & interesting discussions, imho.
There hasn't been enough intelligent and interesting discussion here lately to shake a stick at..and it's not Nina's fault. MacGeorge has been posting in-depth reports on 4 seasons worth of episodes. How many people have bothered to comment? How many people have taken another look at an episode and thought "Ya know, Duncan was a real ass there. Why didn't I see that before?" and then posted their insightful comments here? The truth is there have only ever been about 10 people here who actually *discussed* HL and what it all meant (out of almost 1000 members at one point). The rest say nothing or only chime in for roll calls or drool fests.If there were 20 or 30 or 40 people carrying on 3 or 4 different discussion, the occasional (or constant) ill-tempered post wouldn't mean anything.
So..if there are hordes of angry but silent LIstees out there..don't quit and don't stew in silence..place your fingers on your keyboards and type out something interesting that the rest of us can read and savor and debate. What kind of father would Duncan have been, really? Was Amanda a cheap whore or just cheap? If Richie had lived 400 years, would he have been more like Duncan, Gregor or Kuyler? Did you realize that Anne doesn't tell Duncan about her pregnancy until almost 40 minutes into the episode? And all the action after that takes less than 24 hours (maybe only 12) Does that change your feeling toward the outcome in any way? Could Kenny really have survived 800 years....seriously. If Anne slept with Amanda is that just girl-on-girl fun or serious slash? Does it matter if Duncan was watching? Was it inevitable that a mime *and* a dwarf showed up in HL? Was I the only one who tried to stab myself in the eyes to make the boredom that was " The Blitz" stop?
Wendy(Come on, people. Help me out here.)
Immortals Inc.
immortals_incorporated@cox.net
"Weasels for Eternity"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:01:55 -0700
From: "R. Shelton" <rshelton2@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Highla-L Under Attack
At 2:40 AM +0100 6/16/04, a.j.mosby wrote:
>No flaming from me.
I apologize to everyone here for getting so mad - should of slept on
that one. You're correct about everything you mentioned of course,
Wendy. It just gets so *old* sometimes and is so effective at
shutting down discussion about most anything that has the barest
chance of even starting one.
At 2:40 AM +0100 6/16/04, a.j.mosby wrote:
>It's rather telling that when someone has already proven they are capable of
>coming up with a decent discussion and point, that they still always seem to
>feel the need to twist the knife, just for that extra effect. Just to see
>the wince.
>
>THAT's the difference between clever and cruel.
Well said. Thank you. Sorry again everyone...
--
Rachel A. Shelton
rshelton2@earthlink.net
@}->->->-
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:54:46 +0200
From: T'Mar <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: Highla-L Under Attack
Wendy wrote:
>I don't get attacked, so it's not "everyone" but ... point taken.
I wonder why not? :)
>One determined person can cause a fair amount of stir on a list...but with
>kill files and filtering and a good dose of "I can't see you", these things
>can be managed.
I don't killfile people. My delete key works just fine. Actually, I very
seldom bother to even delete stuff... the entertainment value of many
posts is just too high. "Oh, Person A posted X. Which means that Person B
is going to jump on them. 3... 2... 1... Ha! I knew it!" I don't get that
much excitement out of sports matches. (I know... I need to get a life.
I could say that to a few other people, too.)
>The truth is there have only ever been about 10 people here who
>actually *discussed* HL and what it all meant (out of almost 1000 members
>at one point).
How many are there now?
>What kind of father would Duncan have been, really?
I think a good one. He seemed to be a good role-model for Kahani, and he
was very cute changing the baby in "Bless the Child".
>Was Amanda a cheap whore or just cheap?
She may have been a whore... she was *never* cheap! :)
>If Richie had lived 400 years, would he have been more like Duncan,
>Gregor or Kuyler?
I think he would have been more like Richie. (Oh, come on!) He certainly
believed Duncan was worth emulating, but he grew up in a different time.
He didn't really feel the need to save the entire world the way Duncan
does. I think he would have eventually just tried to live as best he
could, only getting into fights when he had no option. (Wait! So he
would have been more like *Methos*?!)
>Did you realize that Anne doesn't tell Duncan about her pregnancy until
>almost 40 minutes into the episode?
No?
>And all the action after that takes less than 24 hours (maybe only 12)
>Does that change your feeling toward the outcome in any way?
No. :) But then I never liked Anne that much. Shorthand: Not concerned
about privacy. Tried to infere in things she knew nothing about. The
C-word. Unprotected sex. Pregnancy. Dashing hopes of man who can't have
children. Subway tunnel. See, I can do it too!
>Could Kenny really have survived 800 years....seriously.
I don't know. Maybe a kimmie like the Kurgan would relish the idea of
"turning" a new immie into a killing-machine like himself, only to
discover his mistake later on (when Kenny pulled the old chop-a-rama).
*Maybe*. And like you (I think), once said about Methos, maybe Kenny
had perfected the art of knowing when to run away. Maybe.
>If Anne slept with Amanda is that just girl-on-girl fun or serious slash?
Who cares? <g> If it doesn't have a Y choromosome, I'm not going to read
about it!
>Does it matter if Duncan was watching?
No. Unless Methos was there too and they got, you know, *ideas*.
>Was it inevitable that a mime *and* a dwarf showed up in HL?
I think so.
>Was I the only one who tried to stab myself in the eyes to make the
>boredom that was " The Blitz" stop?
No. Well... I had my hands over my ears at one point and was singing
"Who Wants to Live Forever" at the top of my lungs (an awful scenario -
much like Angel, I can't sing!) to drown out the TV.
>(Come on, people. Help me out here.)
I tried.
- Marina.
\\ "I think somewhere on the road to reality, ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// you took a left turn." - Nowhere Man || R I C H I E >> \\
\\==============tmar@sifl.iid.co.za===========||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//===Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie==|| \\
"What about the fact they thought we were gay?"
"Adds mystery." - Wesley and Angel; "Expecting" (Angel)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:10:59 -0400
From: Dianne Trautmann <diannet@optonline.net>
Subject: Highlander crossover on Cartoon Network (of sorts)
Taking up Wendy's plea for help from the list lurkers, I offer the
following:
I was watching Aqua Teen Hunger Force on Cartoon Network with my husband.
He is hooked on this very twisted cartoon, and I think I am on my way. The
main characters are a floating box of french fries that sports a face and a
goatee (Frylock), a giant milkshake (Shake), and a burger without a bun
(Meat Wad.) Meat Wad is very childlike, Frylock is a computer whiz adult
figure, and Shake is an instigator. Shake has destroyed Meat Wad's toys and
Frylock has taken him to the toy store to buy him a replacement doll. The
cheapest doll there is Happy Time Harry, which turns out to be a depressed
man with a serious drug habit and a switchblade where his right hand should
be. After several scenes they all decide the doll has to go (are you still
with me?)
Frylock: You're outta here like last year.
Happy Time Harry: Oh yeah? You got what it takes man? Do yah? Pull the
trigger. Pull it. Pull it NOW!
Shake: Don't do it! That's what he wants. So we're going to do the
opposite. Prepare to be IMMORTAL!
(The scene shifts from the front yard of their house to a cliff.)
Frylock: You're gonna chuck him off a cliff? Shake, we could've chucked him
off the roof and stayed home.
Shake: No, this is a magic cliff here like in the Highlander. For you will
become the Highlander and you'll roam the Earth forever trying to kill
yourself but you won't be able to because you'll be immortal. Won't that
suck, little man! (Evil laugh)
Meat Wad: Well that's neat. That sounds kinda cool.
Shake: Yeah it does.
Meat Wad: Then I'm gonna do it.
Shake: No you're not. I'm doin it.
Frylock: Shake, wait! The Highlander was just a movie. I mean...
Shake: Oh Frylock, the Highlander was a documentary and the events happened
in real time.
Meat Wad: So this cliff is magic?
Shake: Oh yeah, big time.
Meat Wad: I'm doin' it now!
Happy Time Harry: Oh man, look, you gotta be born a Highlander. You can't
just become one.
Frylock: See, he saw the movie too!
Meat Wad: Yeah now that's right.
Shake: I know I saw cliffs, okay! And there was lots of magic everywhere,
and Mel Gibson.
Happy Time Harry: Ah, Braveheart? Hello?
Shake: Oh, you think you're the expert? Let's hear how much your ass knows
about flying.
(Shake throws doll off cliff and we finally hear a splash.)
Shake: Yeah! That's what I'm talkin' about!
Frylock: Are you done? Because that took forever.
Shake: I'm...well...I'm forever.. I am IMMORTAL!
(Shake jumps off cliff.)
Frylock: Shake, NO!
(Shake is hanging by his straw to a jutting tree branch on side of cliff.)
Shake: Quick! I'm not immortal here, okay?
Frylock: Hang on Shake, we'll call for help.
Shake: Yeah, hurry, I think that the branch will hold...it's not
holding--------
(Branch breaks. New scene: Frylock is talking to Meat Wad, who's floating
in a rubber tube in the pool in back of the house.)
Frylock: So I guess the Highlander comes out of traction today.
Meat Wad: Well I hope they fixed his eyes, they got all messed up pretty bad
in that fall.
Frylock: Well the doctors gave him some hard plastic replacements so don't
stare at him, okay? He's real self conscious about it.
Meat Wad. Okay.
(Shake is in a motorized wheel chair and comes up to the side of the
swimming pool. A bandage is wrapped around the top of his cup and his
straw. His eyes look like google eyes.)
Shake: Alas! I return!
Frylock: Oh...there you are.
Meat Wad: Dang! What happened to your eyes? They look wierd!
Frylock: Shhh!
Shake: Shut up. There can be only one!
(Shake raises up a broadsword he had hidden beside him in the wheelchair.
Close up to point of sword, which draws a quickening from the sky. Shake
drops sword and falls from the chair on fire. One eye pops off his cup.)
Meat Wad: Big grillin tonight!
AquaTeen Hunger Force. Episode: Dummer Dolls
Cartoon Network
Adultswim.com
Twisted, I know. Any thoughts?
Dianne Trautmann
lurker since (hell I don't know, sometime during season 2 when I found the
internet and this list)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:51:31 -0700
From: Don Dartfield <twodeel@jornada.org>
Subject: Re: Highlander crossover on Cartoon Network (of sorts)
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004, Dianne Trautmann wrote:
> Taking up Wendy's plea for help from the list lurkers, I offer the
> following:
> I was watching Aqua Teen Hunger Force on Cartoon Network with my husband.
> He is hooked on this very twisted cartoon, and I think I am on my way.
> <snip>
That's pretty hilarious. I watched ATHF a couple times, and I never
really could figure out what the heck was going on, but this is going to
make me give it another shot.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:14:01 +0100
From: "a.j.mosby" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Holy-er than thou?
Is everyone having problems getting the Holyground Forum to open, or is it
just me?
John
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:45:03 EDT
From: Dotiran@aol.com
Subject: Re: Holy-er than thou?
In a message dated 6/16/2004 2:00:36 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
Is everyone having problems getting the Holyground Forum to open, or is it
just me?
Nope, just you :(
[Wednesday. Maybe they don't accept Brits on Wednesday *vbeg*]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 16:01:30 EDT
From: Highlandmg@aol.com
Subject: Re: Holy-er than thou?
John
I am having no problems
Mary
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:06:53 +0100
From: "a.j.mosby" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Holy-er than thou?
Well, crap.
Haven't been able to get on for the last three days. Presumed it was in a
funk again. No idea what's wrong as I have no trouble elsewhere.
John
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:13:29 +0100
From: Jette Goldie <jette@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Holy-er than thou?
> Is everyone having problems getting the Holyground Forum to
open, or is it
> just me?
>
> John
>
Forum is fine for me - but my email is misbehaving.
Jette Goldie
jette@blueyonder.co.uk
"If you don't care where you are, then you aren't lost"
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:14:47 +0100
From: "a.j.mosby" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Holy-er than thou?
> Forum is fine for me - but my email is misbehaving.
>
> Jette Goldie
Hmmmm. Tried from three different computers and it just comes up as being
'down' Thought it might be a UK thing, but obviously not.
It's a conspiracy.
John
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 20:10:29 -0400
From: Sandy Fields <diamonique@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Highla-L Under Attack
At 02:01 AM 6/16/2004, you wrote:
>At 2:40 AM +0100 6/16/04, a.j.mosby wrote:
> >No flaming from me.
>
>I apologize to everyone here for getting so mad - should of slept on
>that one. You're correct about everything you mentioned of course,
>Wendy. It just gets so *old* sometimes and is so effective at
>shutting down discussion about most anything that has the barest
>chance of even starting one.
>
>At 2:40 AM +0100 6/16/04, a.j.mosby wrote:
> >It's rather telling that when someone has already proven they are capable of
> >coming up with a decent discussion and point, that they still always seem to
> >feel the need to twist the knife, just for that extra effect. Just to see
> >the wince.
> >
> >THAT's the difference between clever and cruel.
>
>Well said. Thank you. Sorry again everyone...
>
>--
>Rachel A. Shelton
>rshelton2@earthlink.net
> @}->->->-
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 20:16:17 -0400
From: Sandy Fields <diamonique@comcast.net>
Subject: Amanda
At 12:25 AM 6/16/2004, Wendy Tillis wrote:
>Was Amanda a cheap whore or just cheap?
Ya know... this one got me thinking. I know we talk about Amanda as being
a whore, but was she really? Did we see instances of her behaving in a
whorish manner? Why is she considered a whore?
She's.. well... different. She doesn't stay in one place very long. She's
her own woman and doesn't depend on anyone. She's a thief (we've seen
instances of that).
But is she a whore? I haven't watched any HL in a *very* long time, so
there may have been some scenes that show this.. I just don't remember. So
if you think so, please explain.
-- Sandy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:20:37 -0500
From: Ginny <RED57@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Highlander crossover on Cartoon Network (of sorts)
Dianne Trautmann wrote on 6/16/2004, 10:10 AM:
> Meat Wad: Big grillin tonight!
Oh. God. Thank you! Yes, I admit that I've watched more than a few ATHF
episodes. And it sounds like the writers have sat up all night more than
a few times arguing their way through the Highlander universe's strange
twists.
--
Ginny
RED57@aol.com
Fresh out of .sig lines
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:43:04 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Highla-L Under Attack
Rachel--
> I apologize to everyone here for getting so mad
Apology accepted.
John types away--
> And yes, there's an art to sarcasm than can be funny. There's a skill to
> irony. Even a slight insult can be amusing to all if delivered well. But
> sometimes naked vitriol comes across as just that. Snide. Nasty. Negative.
> Withered. Cruel. Something needlessly added or said with deliberate venom,
> an aside for no other reason than to make someone else seem small or
> inferior. Something not even said, but *blink-blink* insinuated to score
a
> point.
> It's rather telling that when someone has already proven they are capable
of
> coming up with a decent discussion and point, that they still always seem
to
> feel the need to twist the knife, just for that extra effect. Just to see
> the wince.
> THAT's the difference between clever and cruel.
Thanks for the lesson. As usual, you ably demonstrate the difference
between erudite & pompous.
Nina (if the list is under attack, perhaps a color-coded alert system would
be helpful....)
mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 01:59:00 +0100
From: "a.j.mosby" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Highla-L Under Attack
Rachel
I don't think anyone here thinks you need to apologise for anything.
John
> Rachel--
>
> > I apologize to everyone here for getting so mad
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:13:18 EDT
From: Bizarro7@aol.com
Subject: Re: Holy-er than thou?
No prob at the moment. Maybe their server is having a hiccup or two.
Leah
------------------------------
End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 15 Jun 2004 to 16 Jun 2004 (#2004-109)
***************************************************************