HIGHLA-L Digest - 12 Jul 2003 (#2003-153)
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@lists.psu.edu)
Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:00:07 -0400
There are 11 messages totalling 393 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Fanfic & Morals (2)
2. Reality TV, porn, etc (Was: Re: Fanfic & Morals) (2)
3. Fanfic: Live and Let Di(ana) (7)
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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:17:32 +0100
From: "John Mosby (Out&About)" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Fanfic & Morals
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Tidwell" <Robinchristine79@aol.com>
To: <HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [HL] Fanfic & Morals
> In a message dated 7/11/2003 8:31:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> mac.westie@verizon.net writes:
>
> > Many don't even consider it porn if it is fanfic, &they
> > would _never_ consider reading about the same explicit sex acts in any
other
> > fashion.
> >
> > Since I believe you said you've been on the net since February, I'm sure
> > none of this applies to you.
> >
> > Nina
> > mac.westie@verizon.net
> >
>
> Actually, I do read straight up porn, and watch movies with my husband all
> the time. So, no, it doesn't apply to me. I've also had internet access
from my
> mom's and my uncle's computer. So just because I just got mine, doesn't
mean I
> haven't been reading fan fic for years.
>
> Robin
Fair to say that there's 'porn' and there's the pimping that is current
mainstream reality tv.
I know which makes me feel more unclean.
John
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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:33:31 EDT
From: Robin Tidwell <Robinchristine79@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Fanfic & Morals
In a message dated 7/12/2003 9:18:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
> Fair to say that there's 'porn' and there's the pimping that is current
> mainstream reality tv.
>
> I know which makes me feel more unclean.
>
> John
>
Isn't that the truth!
Robin
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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:44:54 +0200
From: T'Mar <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Reality TV, porn, etc (Was: Re: Fanfic & Morals)
John wrote:
>Fair to say that there's 'porn' and there's the pimping that is current
>mainstream reality tv.
>I know which makes me feel more unclean.
Amen, brother.
Actually, on another list I'm on, we were discussing why people
feel the need to bash reality TV and/or the people who like it.
(Um, because it panders to the lowest common denominator?
Because it's tacky and voyeuristic? Because most of what goes
on does not fit the actual meaning of "real"? Because people
have no taste?)
But sometimes I, as a Highlander fan, get looked at funny when I
say I like HL, Buffy, Angel, Smallville, etc. Yet, I bet if I
stated that I watch "Survivor" (which I don't - the only series
I watched was the one filmed in Africa, although it was nowhere
near here), no one would even blink. In fact, they'd probably ask
me who I think would win!
A colleague at work stated that he wanted to leave parents' evening
before nine because he wanted to watch "The Shield". Everyone
nodded as if that made sense. When I wanted to leave a function
so I could watch Buffy, they all looked as me as though I was
crazy.
- Marina.
\\"You can spend precious time marching in your prefect lines,//
// but I don't hear that drum; I'm looking for something else.\\
\\ And if you don't like what you see, you don't have to look //
// at me." - Melissa Etheridge ||=====tmar@sifl.iid.co.za=====\\
\\==========Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie===========//
"A starship also runs on loyalty to one man, and nothing can replace
it or him." - Spock to Kirk; TOS ("The Ultimate Computer")
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:22:27 +0100
From: Jette Goldie <jette@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fanfic: Live and Let Di(ana)
> 2) The dead Princess Diana is being ressurected to beome part of Marvel
> Comic's X-Static team - a spin-off from the X-Men that casts a satirical
> look at the nature of fame and celebrity. Now, while I won't completely
> write this off (I'm all for free-speech and I'm sure there are some dark
> but valid points to be made) if there's any doubt that her inclusion will
> cast a wave of distaste here in the UK, then I'd wonder how quickly a team
> made up of 9-11 corpses would go down in the US? Do I detect a
> publicity-stunt?
Actually, John - Marvel's backing down on that one - the "Princess
Di" character won't be appearing in X-Statix afterall, according to
the latest news in the Marvel forums.
Jette
"Work for Peace and remain Fiercely Loving" - Jim Byrnes
jette@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:36:05 -0400
From: Becky Doland <becky@beckyjo.com>
Subject: Re: Reality TV, porn, etc (Was: Re: Fanfic & Morals)
Marina:
> A colleague at work stated that he wanted to leave parents' evening
> before nine because he wanted to watch "The Shield". Everyone
> nodded as if that made sense. When I wanted to leave a function
> so I could watch Buffy, they all looked as me as though I was
> crazy.
Yes, I get the same thing. I think the media has a lot to do with people's
perception of what should be considered 'acceptable'. Survivor received so
much main-stream hype, was plugged to the nth degree on radio, television,
billboards, and every available magazine cover. And shows like "The
Sheild" - a cop show winning Emmys - people come under the perception that
these are shows they should feel good about watching. However, anything
even slightly out of the main stream, ie Buffy, HL, StarGate, or basically
anything scifi carry a bit of a stigma, as if those of us who watch them are
not the rational adults we should be. I often wonder if and how this
perception could be changed.
~ Becky
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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:38:10 +0100
From: "John Mosby (Out&About)" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Fanfic: Live and Let Di(ana)
> Actually, John - Marvel's backing down on that one - the "Princess
> Di" character won't be appearing in X-Statix afterall, according to
> the latest news in the Marvel forums.
>
> Jette
> "Work for Peace and remain Fiercely Loving" - Jim Byrnes
> jette@blueyonder.co.uk
> http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
Hmmm. Still worked out as nice publicity for the title, though. ;)
John
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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:45:00 +0100
From: Jette Goldie <jette@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fanfic: Live and Let Di(ana)
> > Actually, John - Marvel's backing down on that one - the "Princess
> > Di" character won't be appearing in X-Statix afterall, according to
> > the latest news in the Marvel forums.
>
> Hmmm. Still worked out as nice publicity for the title, though. ;)
yeah, I must admit I'd never heard of that particular MU (Mutant
Universe) title before (there are just too many X-books now!)
Jette
Never bet on Star Trek trivia if your opponent speaks Klingon.
- Ancient Kung Foole Proverb
jette@blueyonder.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:59:54 -0400
From: jjswbt@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Fanfic: Live and Let Di(ana)
John wrote:
>it's not a good week to be a dead royal.
But better a dead royal then a dead commoner!
>1) The Princess Diana charity was set up after her death so that it could
>channel the many donations coming in to good causes and control the quality
>of merchandise seen to be 'offcial'. In a short amount of time it collected
>a huge amount of money and licensed her 'signature' and portrait shots to a
>host of official merchandisers. It took on various companies who seemed to
>be trading on the Diana name but who had no official connection.
I always thought the Diana Fund was carrying things a bit far when Diana had gone so far out of her way to become a worldwide public figure. *Not* that they didn't have a legal right to license certain photos and her signature....but they seemed intent on controlling every photo and image.
> One of
>these was the US-based Franklin Mint, who, The Diana Fund claimed, were
>trespassing on and trading off a name they had no license for. The Mint
>claimed they were being unfairly victimised. In the end, the Diana Fund,
>amazingly, lost the legal battle.
Not so amazing. The Franklin Mint is a long time purveyor of high priced crap with celebrity likenesses. I'd bet much of their merchandise was of better "quality" then some of the stuff produced by the Diana Fund and I doubt anyone was confused by the two. The Diana Fund came off looking like greedy bastards who wanted *all* the money from the Diana Cash Cow. They picked the wrong bunch to mess with <g> And, of course, selective enforcement is always tricky in trademark matters. Either you stop everyone from using your material (including the mom&pop stores) or you risk being unable to stop anyone.
> This week the company said they would
>counter-sue the charity for deformation of their character. The charity had
>no choice but to freeze its own assets and stop payments to many charities
>who count on it.
No choice? Or made a choice designed to gain sympathy from the community?
>The Franklin Mint says that any money - it wants around $20million - will
>be..... donated to a charity.
*If* the Franklin Mint files suit asking for a specific amount (like $20M) then there is no reason for the Diana Fund to freeze all of its assets (surely many times over $20M) Sounds like PR to me.
>I'm sure the people who would have normally benefiited from the Diana Fund
>money appreciate the fact that the Franklin Mint's 'WE got caught, but
>no-one else did, so it's unfair' defence is worth every penny the lawyers
>got. Irony it seems, is alive if not well-distributed.
Yeah, definitely PR and it seems to be working on you <g> Withhold money from charities that are counting on it and then blame the big bad Franklin Mint for it. The Diana Fund, of course, bears no responsibility. Maybe the government can pass a law protecting the Diana Fund from law suits?
>2) The dead Princess Diana is being ressurected to beome part of Marvel
>Comic's X-Static team - a spin-off from the X-Men that casts a satirical
>look at the nature of fame and celebrity.
That sounded so cool. Sorry, I just think the idea of a Diana superhero sounded interesting and funny.
>Now, while I won't completely
>write this off (I'm all for free-speech and I'm sure there are some dark
>but valid points to be made)
Sadly, I see she has been removed from the concept. Too bad. I was hoping a Mother Teresa superhero would be next!
>if there's any doubt that her inclusion will
>cast a wave of distaste here in the UK,
No one in the UK is fed up with Diana worship? Even after all this time? And no one has an offbeat sense of humor? So much for the Land of Monty Python.
> then I'd wonder how quickly a team
>made up of 9-11 corpses would go down in the US?
Not quite the same. Diana was a high profile, media savvy, rich, famous, superstar who flamed out in a rather spectacular, and at least partially self induced, manner. The 9-11 victims simply died at their desks while minding their own business. Diana worked hard to make herself the center of attention .. the 9-11 victims are still mostly unknown by name except to the family and friends who knew them.
> Do I detect a publicity-stunt?
Probably. Diana herself knew something about those, eh?
Wendy(At least they were making her a superhero and not the villain of the piece.)
Fairy Killer
jjswbt@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jjswbt/index.html
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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 23:12:52 +0100
From: Jette Goldie <jette@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fanfic: Live and Let Di(ana)
> >if there's any doubt that her inclusion will
> >cast a wave of distaste here in the UK,
>
> No one in the UK is fed up with Diana worship? Even after all this time?
And no one has an offbeat sense of humor? So much for the Land of Monty
Python.
blech - some of us were fed up with Diana worship even
when she was alive.
Jette
"Work for Peace and remain Fiercely Loving" - Jim Byrnes
jette@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:00:21 +0100
From: "John Mosby (Out&About)" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Fanfic: Live and Let Di(ana)
> blech - some of us were fed up with Diana worship even
> when she was alive.
>
> Jette
> "Work for Peace and remain Fiercely Loving" - Jim Byrnes
> jette@blueyonder.co.uk
> http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
I was never a huge Diana fan, but felt the death was as tragic as it simply
obviously was whenever such events happen. She was a troubled rich woman
with every luxury in life who had lots of problems and did a lot of good in
her later years. No better than you or me, but with a better bank balance, I
guess.
But for all that (even as a journalist) I saw the obviously bland coverage
that followed her demise, I do think that the comic was in poor taste by its
very nature. I would have held off any more in-depth observations until I'd
read a copy. Maybe the 9-11 comparison was wrong, though I doubt those close
to Diana would have felt it was in any better taste. Maybe a better
comparison would havee been writing a comic with JFK Jnr or maybe making a
comic about an Alzheimer's-ridden ex-President.
I like satire. I appreciate black humour. Vicious can be good. But those who
cry wolf when criticised - after producing deliberately provocative
material - often have a hollow ring to their complaints. But I spot a
publicity-stunt at a hundred paces and the first announcement of this came
over two months ago. The recent furore in the press was very carefully timed
so as to get max coverage for the first edition - and I'm thinking the
alterations to name and content were probably already being readied anyway.
John
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:25:37 EDT
From: Dotiran@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fanfic: Live and Let Di(ana)
I
> some of us were fed up with Diana worship even
> >when she was alive.
>
Many Americans, while never "worshipping" Diana, did have a great attraction
to her. The fairy tale wedding, the beautiful children, the tragic lifestyle
and ending all evoke strong emotion. The irony of the timing is that in the
wake [no pun intended] of her death, the death of Mother Theresa got short shrift
in the press. If ever a life deserved to be celebrated !
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 12 Jul 2003 (#2003-153)
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