HIGHLA-L Digest - 7 Jul 2003 (#2003-143)
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Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:00:01 -0400
There are 5 messages totalling 335 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Combined ep thoughts and musings
2. Fanfic & Morals (4)
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Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:13:44 -0700
From: FKMel <sgt_buck_frobisher@yahoo.com>
Subject: Combined ep thoughts and musings
1. Methos-is it me or did they copy off of this ep in
Endgame? Sure sounds a lot like that whole suicidal
Connor "Duncan take my head please" thing they had
going on.
I wanna get to the Horseman Methos stuff but that
won't be for a while, I know.
And I don't think I blame Mac for being miffed at
Richie.....what was he thinking getting into something
so dangerous and high profile? And he did 'die' in an
accident in the next ep.....dumb if you ask me.
2. Blind Faith-I don't blame Mac for hating
Kage/Kirin's guts for what he did and for being so
distrustful of him but shouldn't he have at least
considered the possibility that he *could* have
changed? Look at Darius. But then I know he's probably
known his share of people like Kalas, who never did
change.
And on a related note to Song of the Executioner,yes,
I agree, if he was going to tell Anne the truth later
on, why not tell Charlie so he'd know what he was
going up against?
3.Star-Crossed: Gotta feel sorry for Mac here. Didn't
cry this time, but it was a sad ep. Fitz was funny as
always though. I had to laugh at Mac when he told him
he was causing problems because he "couldn't keep his
pecker in his pants"...LOL. And I'm really starting to
like Duncan with the Scottish accent.
This ep got me thinking....how do you think Immies
would cope with the constant death in their lives?
Mortals always dying the way mortals do, Immies losing
their heads.....how would a person keep from getting
hardened and becoming a kimmie? I know we have seen a
couple examples of getting detatched and having a hard
time feeling.....Gregor in Studies in Light, Connor
having a hard time loving in the original
movie...though we may want to keep that seperate since
it was the movie....but anyway, how do you think they
would deal with that kind of thing? We do see Duncan's
little meditation retreats and I guess that
helps...what else?
Mel
=====
The trouble with immortality is that it tends to go on forever-Herb Cain
FK:NickNatPacker, Knight of the Cross,Knightie, Natpacker/Highlander:Duncan Flag-Waver/Due South Fan/Tracker Fan/Angel Fan/Port Charles Fan
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Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:17:49 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Fanfic & Morals
Pat--
>>>What it boils down to is you think John, in his capacity as a
professional
writer, should do an "expose" and force the various PTB to take a public
position wrt to fanfic. Not because they want to. Not because the fans
want it. Solely because *you* want it, to serve your purpose.>>
No, that's NOT what it boils down to. But I don't feel like boiling things
down for you, so....
>It's nice to be clear about things, don't you think.
Yes, I do. But suit yourself.
be--
>>>The trouble with the playground/sandbox/garden/swing set analogy is that
all of
these are physical objects with limited size that can only be used by one
person
at a time.
Making up stories is none of those.>>>
So why have intellectual property laws at all? Maybe no creative endeavors
deserve legal protection. John--thoughts on that? If books & mag articles
deserve protection (& of course they do), why is the creative effort behind
TV shows different? _Especially_ if we supposedly love those shows. Why is
it OK to rip them off?
John--
>>But
you're saying that until the day Davis/Panzer sue someone, they aren't
making any choice at all. >>>
A lawsuit is a clear choice. _Not_ bringing a suit (to date) is far less
clear, because there are all sorts of possible reasons. Statements on the
record in, oh I don't know, a magazine article would also be clear. But
_that's_ not going to happen, right?
John--
>>>Given that Carmel recently pointed out that
their offical site welcomes fanfic, I think we can do more than just
'assume' their position on fanfic, we can take them at their offical
word.(albeit not encompassing the paid distribution which is another matter)
>From that I think we can *assume* if they don't mind fanfic>>>
You DO know what they say about assuming? If you MUST assume something, why
not assume that DPP _only_ will tolerate HL fanfic publicly at their own
site, so that this "official word" is trying to discourage fanfic being
distributed elsewhere?
>>>Leah can correct me if I'm wrong (and undoutedly will! ;) ) but her
cartoons
have covered Star Trek, Xena, Highlander, SG-1, The Sentinel and Quantum
Leap. Well, yes, Nina...damn Leah for concentrating on only a *few* cult
shows.>>>
It's not exactly like an all Star Trek/all the time version of SNL. But it
also isn't MAD mag or the usual social commentary that is accepted as
parody. It certainly doesn't demonstrate originality.
Carmel--
> Nina your arguments come
> close to reductio ab adsurdum.
This from the woman who created the idyllic playground scenario. BTW, I
didn't get an answer to my question to you on that--about DPP's website
feature for fanfic & all the HL fanfic on YOUR site--& I played along w/
your scenario so nicely.... Very disheartening.
> However, what makes us
> much more interesting as a species of living, breathing beings (as opposed
> to programmed machines) is that many of us are very situational in our
> choices.
Situational ethics? Like relative morality? I'd think certain folks here
would object to that idea. Rottie? Dawn? Oh--maybe it's OK for fanfic, or
for Carmel. Odd, though--it certainly wasn't OK yesterday.
> We often saw Duncan break into property,
> steal, - we even saw him assassinate the mortal head of a foreign power!
However, we never saw him boffing Methos. Or heard him extolling the
virtues of distributed fanfic.
> Yet many of us admire him as one of the most moral men we know.
A man? That we know? Reality check--many of us admire him as a moral
fictional character.
> Life and its choices is very complex. I obey the law in virtually
> everything but
But you think it's fine to distribute fanfic w/o permission. It's fun & you
like it. OK, I made a note.
> Thus, I don't steal
Now, wait . Earlier, you said--
"...it is obvious that Davis-Panzer own the characters. I certainly
acknowledge that and that fanfiction is unauthorised use of someone else's
property."
Unauthorized use of someone else's property IS stealing. Copyrighted
material is no different from anything else. You seem to want to think
fanfic is _nice_ stealing, but there's no magic, personal exception for
fanfic or for you. If you _really_ need to do it, then I guess you have to
rationalize it, but don't expect me to go along.
> I can only go on the signals
> being sent to me and those signals suggest that the owner doesn't mind
> Highlander fanfiction.
The only "signal" you cited was the fanfic feature ON DPP'S OWN SITE. How
does that give you the green light for distributing fanfic _elsewhere_?
It's surely more reasonable to think DPP's trying to control it, rather than
encourage it.
> Certainly you would accept that a signal from Uncle Bill carries more
> weight than a signal from you????
It's not a matter of anything from me. You stated fanfic is unauthorised
use of someone else's property, then decided it was a fine thing to do. I'm
just trying to connect the dots.
> I am thankful for his allowing me to use his garden and act
> accordingly. As soon as he asks me to stop using his garden, I will stop.
But, fanfic's a "don't ask, don't tell" thing, so you're pretty safe, aren't
you?
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:56:40 EDT
From: Ashton7@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fanfic & Morals
In a message dated 7/7/2003 7:17:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
> I don't see him threatening to sue when they make him look
> stupid(er).
>
Now, John. Be real. It isn't possible to make him look stupid*er*.
Annie
"I'm back!" -- Dr. Daniel Jackson
****************
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:58:02 -0700
From: Pat Lawson <plawson@webleyweb.com>
Subject: Re: Fanfic & Morals
Nina wrote:
>John--
> >>>Given that Carmel recently pointed out that
>their offical site welcomes fanfic, I think we can do more than just
>'assume' their position on fanfic, we can take them at their offical
>word.(albeit not encompassing the paid distribution which is another matter)
> From that I think we can *assume* if they don't mind fanfic>>>
>
>You DO know what they say about assuming? If you MUST assume something, why
>not assume that DPP _only_ will tolerate HL fanfic publicly at their own
>site, so that this "official word" is trying to discourage fanfic being
>distributed elsewhere?
A new fan discovers HL in reruns so she goes on-line to learn more. Top
hit on her google search takes her to the official site complete with
fanfic.
A longtime fan has just gotten online. He might never have even heard of
fanfic before visiting the official site. Most people first hear of it
either online or at a con.
Yep, good way for TPTB to discourage fanfic and indicate their displeasure
with it. That must be what they mean.
Pat
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:01:10 EDT
From: Ashton7@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fanfic & Morals
In a message dated 7/7/2003 7:17:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
> Leah can correct me if I'm wrong (and undoutedly will! ;) ) but her
> cartoons
> have covered Star Trek, Xena, Highlander, SG-1, The Sentinel and Quantum
> Leap. Well, yes, Nina...damn Leah for concentrating on only a *few* cult
> shows. Where shall we set the definition of restrictive is? 1 show, 5
> shows, 25 shows? See,s pretty diverse, so far, but I've only seen about 30
> of her sketches.
>
Hmmm. Star Wars (Starlog did a whole spread of them and I think we can assume
George Lucas doesn't mind since he bought one), Babylon 5 (I think we can
assume JMS doesn't mind since he's seen them, commented on them, signed some of
them), Buffy, Angel, Blakes 7 (Terry Nation didn't seem to mind all the times
he saw them, auctioned them at art auctions...and of course the actors in
question... hmmm. There were the ones who bid on them at the auctions and bought
them...), various and sundry Westerns... and then there are several pro SciFi
books that were illustrated by Leah with original illustrations and cartoons.
And all of the cat and dog magazines she's done work for over the years. And the
Jewish children's books she used to illustrate... yadda yadda yadda. Yes,
damn Leah. She's just everywhere. Damn her.
Annie
"I'm back!" -- Dr. Daniel Jackson
****************
Stargate Solutions: http://www.savedanieljackson.com
Our Stargate Discussion Forum:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/ourstargate/start
Ashton Press: http://ashtonpress.net/
Gateway, A Stargate Slash Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gateway/join
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 7 Jul 2003 (#2003-143)
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