HIGHLA-L Digest - 7 Jun 2003 to 8 Jun 2003 (#2003-105)
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Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:00:01 -0400
There are 6 messages totalling 359 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. safe Immie sex (was--Re: Mac's Barge) (2)
2. HL TRIVIA--Whose vehicles?--ANSWERS
3. Anne (was-- safe Immie sex (was--Re: Mac's Barge)
4. HL Trivia--season 2 pt. 3 (2)
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Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 23:01:32 -0400
From: jjswbt@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: safe Immie sex (was--Re: Mac's Barge)
Since Nina is "spoiling" Mel's first impressions of Anne, I'll chime in<g>
Nina:
>Just keep in mind that Anne is a supposedly respected & skilled doctor.
>Keep in mind that TPTB have said she was their stab at a professional woman
>& they couldn't understand the ...mixed... reception female fans--many of
>whom are professional women--gave her. Watch Anne's clothing & demeanor.
>Watch how she handles her patients & her friends; watch her personal &
>professional lives overlap. Watch decisions she makes, then unmakes, then
>changes course on. Watch the consequences. In the end, decide if DM was
>better/happier for knowing her.
I was (am) willing to give Anne a great deal of slack on a number of accounts.
1) Her clothes and demeanor: Are they, generally, what one would expect of a RL doctor? No, not generally. Are they impossible? No. Are they in keeping with the way Hollywood sees people or thinks that the audience *wants* to see people? Yes. TV people are almost always dressed better than RL people. TV people - especially women - are almost always dressed "sexier" than RL women. For all I know, miniskirts and tight sweaters are the norm for Hollywood doctors<g>. As for her demeanor, I was willing to write it off as the writers' attempt to show a socially inept woman who had spent the last 15- 20 year of her life pursuing a medical degree and who had little or no experience being courted by a dashingly handsome man.
2) Her treatment of friends and patients: Anne is not smooth .Anne is curious. Anne is stubborn and headstrong. Anne thinks she knows best (med school will do that to you.) Anne is, in fact, frequently right- based on the information she has. Sadly for her, she seldom has all the information. As for her personal and private life overlapping..it happens in RL occasionally. It happens *a lot* on TV. Name me a TV doctor whose persona; life *doesn't* overlap his/her private life.
3) Her decisions and her changes in those decisions: Anne makes decisions based on what she knows at the moment. ER training probably reinforces that. As new information comes in, Anne sometimes has to change her course of action to account for the new information. Many of the decisions she makes in the early days are based on her *not* knowing that Duncan is Immortal. Once she knows that, some of her decisions change. Once she truly understands what that *means* , other decisions change. Lots of the mortals Duncan has known over the years probably would have made different choices - or changed choices they had made- if they knew the truth about who (what) they were dealing with.Do we know that Tessa would have stayed with Duncan if she had discovered what he was - and what that meant- before they had been together 3 years? Would Charlie have made different choices or changed his mind if Duncan had told the truth to him *before* he went after Cord with a knife? Anne tried !
to play along...she tried to roll with the punches (and gunfire)(and swordplay) and stick by Duncan. But the rules kept changing - until she finally couldn't keep adjusting. I give her credit or the attempt.
4) Is Duncan happier for having known her? You'd have to ask him - but I'd say that the house project indicates that he didn't see their time together as wasted or totally unhappy.
>It seemed to me that in season 3, DM wanted to settle down, after the
>repeated casual flings of season 2. (Or--the writers had decided DM should
>settle down for a bit in season 3). For DM, Anne was handy, just not
>right.
I think the writers wanted Duncan to *try* to settle down in season 3. I doubt they seriously intended to give him a long term (multi-season) girlfriend. They *say* that if Anne had been better received, she would have stayed around - but they also said they wanted to show Duncan trying and failing in a love affair. The writers were too bought into the idea that only suffering makes a character interesting to have ever allowed Duncan to settle down again. I suspect that even if Alexandra had wanted to stay on HL, they would have eventually killed her off. The angsty, sad, lone-wolf hero is just too irresistible to TV writers.
>(For the writers, Anne was a mess.)
I think the writers had a number of ideas that required a female character. They wanted a re-occurring girlfriend for Duncan after the revolving bed of season 2. They wanted to re-explore the old HL territory of revealing one's immortality to a lover. They wanted to have Duncan be a father - trick when he couldn't have a child of his own. And yet they wanted Duncan to remain free to do all the fun things a single male character can do that a "married with children" character can't. So..they gave him a girlfriend, they had her find out about his immortality, they got her pregnant and they let Duncan deliver the baby- then they took it all away so he could sleep with Amanda next time she blew into town. And through all this, they had to keep *Duncan* as the hero- the sympathetic one. Now just how does one do that? Well, one make the woman the bad guy. Duncan wouldn't easily tell a woman about his immortality, so they had Anne "push" her way into his life. Duncan would never !
endanger a woman when he had a K'immie on his trail, so her nobly leaves her crying over his death...and when she seeks solace in the same way he did after Tessa's death she, of course, get knocked up. When he finally deigns to tell her the truth and discovers her wretched state, he nobly agrees to raise another man's baby as is own. It's the evil Anne who snatches "his" baby away just because she discovers what the Game really means. It's the evil Anne who endangers her life and the baby's in the cave in - it's the noble Duncan who saves the day and delivers the baby on cue. Duncan can't be the heavy so Anne has to be. The writers made damn sure that Anne was, by the end, unrealistic and unlikable - which made sure that the viewers would place no blame on Duncan when she disappeared for good.
I've never seen any character that writers went so far out of their way to destroy than what they did to Anne. There were a dozen ways to remove Anne from Duncan's life that didn't require her to turn into the dumbest bitch in the world. There were ways to explore Duncan's longing for fatherhood and its impossibility without having Anne use Duncan's heart for a tennis ball. (Actually they did explore it several different times without insisting that the women involved were horrid human beings) It came down to a game of "let's see how clueless and heartless we can write Anne this week" - which always begged the question of why, if Anne was so gawd-awful, Duncan seemed to like her so much.
Wendy( I wanted to see a scene where Anne demanded an apology from Duncan for all the crap he put her through before she knew what the true situation was)(But then, I wanted a scene where Charlie was pissed off because he was dying due to Duncan's refusal to tell the truth)
Fairy Killer
jjswbt@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jjswbt/index.html
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Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 18:11:19 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: HL TRIVIA--Whose vehicles?--ANSWERS
HL TRIVIA--Whose vehicles?
classic cream Mercedes--Tessa
1924 Packard--Cory Raines
dark gray/black Jeep Cherokee--Joe Dawson
inconspicuous Volvo--Adam Pierson
Lamborghini--Carl Robinson (season 5)
Humvee--Jim Coltec
dark blue/black Cadillac sedan (w/ easy-entry trunk)--Connor MacLeod
Indian motorcycle--Marcus Korolus/The Scalper
stolen red Mercedes--Evil Duncan
Harley Davidson motorcycle--Kern
rented (& long over-due for return) Ferrari--Richie Ryan (in RRR)
limo w/ vanity tags--Byron
mobile home--Jacob Galati; also--Rita Luce & Michael Christian
Alfa Romeo (last seen upside-down)--Fitz (season 3)
black Daimler--Grant Thomas
yellow convertible--Randi
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
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Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:34:01 +1000
From: Carmel Macpherson <tunnack@webone.com.au>
Subject: Re: safe Immie sex (was--Re: Mac's Barge)
Hi all
Re Dr Anne - beautifully said Wendy.
Kind regards
@ Carmel Macpherson
<<<@{}=================>>> Chief EDFWs
@ carmel@hldu.org
http://www.hldu.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
HLDU6: 29 April - 1 May, 2005. Sydney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 18:37:47 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Anne (was-- safe Immie sex (was--Re: Mac's Barge)
Wendy--
> Since Nina is "spoiling" Mel's first impressions of Anne
She asked for it. Nicely. And, I was restrained. Sort of.
> Name me a TV doctor whose persona; life *doesn't* overlap his/her private
life.
[Mel--look away or be further spoiled.]
Name me a TV doctor who prescribes a lethal amount of sleeping pills for a
distraught & hallucinating lover, w/o a medical exam or psych evaluation.
There's overlap & then there's really stupid malpractice.
>>>she tried to roll with the punches (and gunfire)(and swordplay) and stick
by Duncan. But the rules kept changing - until she finally couldn't keep
adjusting. I give her credit or the attempt.>>>
Not me. I damn her for trying so painfully (for everyone) something she
clearly had no hope (&, I think, little actual desire) of accomplishing.
Had she garnered _no_ self-awareness by the time DM met her?
> 4) Is Duncan happier for having known her? You'd have to ask him - but I'd
say that the house project indicates that he didn't see their time together
as wasted or totally unhappy.
I'd say it provided the show w/ a change of venue & allowed us to see
half-naked men at work. That was lovely. His giving it to Anne made as
little sense as the relationship in the 1st place. (And, would _anyone_
really be thrilled w/ a _home_ as a surprise gift--allowing you no say in
the location, layout, color scheme, etc. Bizarre.)
>>> The writers made damn sure that Anne was, by the end, unrealistic and
unlikable - which made sure that the viewers would place no blame on Duncan
when she disappeared for good. I've never seen any character that writers
went so far out of their way to destroy than what they did to Anne. >>>
And they succeeded.
Nina (is Cassie next?)
mac.westie@verizon.net
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Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 19:16:42 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: HL Trivia--season 2 pt. 3
Unholy Alliance I
Occupation of Duncan's Paris friend Anton LeGris?
What Duncan sticks down Renee Delaney's bodice?
According to the inscription on Horton's crypt, the years of his birth &
death?
Name of Horton's boat?
Name of Duncan's mortal Scottish student?
Unholy Alliance II
Why the barge was moved?
Series regular character who debuts in this episode?
What Duncan promises to take to the son of the dying French Guard officer in
the flashback?
Where Renee Delaney is shot?
Color of Maurice's boat?
The Vampire
Name of 1840 company Duncan wants to invest in?
Alan Baines' vocation?
Names of Nicholas Ward's 2 near-brides?
Duncan to Joe--"Ward earns his money the old-fashioned way--he _____________
it."
Who plays Ward, & the other episode the actor appears in?
Warmonger
What is the "gift from the Proletariat" in the flashback?
Duncan to Eli Jarmel-"All ______ is important to me."
What Duncan takes to the dying Eli Jarmel in the hospital?
Where Duncan beheads Drake?
Name of Beth Vaughn's newspaper?
Pharaoh's Daughter
How Duncan attracts attention in the warehouse & frightens Nefertiri?
Who plays Angela, & the other episode the actress appears in?
Marcus Constantine's current profession?
How Nefertiri "kills" herself in the flashback?
Duncan to Nefertiri--"You don't buy loyalty w/ _____."
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
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Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 11:56:41 -0700
From: "~Rennie MacWoW" <renmacwow@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: HL Trivia--season 2 pt. 3
I seem to have forgotten a lot since we used to do the trivia group Nina,
I'm going to have to dust of the tapes <g>
Unholy Alliance I
Occupation of Duncan's Paris friend Anton LeGris?**Florist**
What Duncan sticks down Renee Delaney's bodice?** I wouldn't venture a
guess**
According to the inscription on Horton's crypt, the years of his birth &
death? **Birth ? Death 1994**
Name of Horton's boat?**Bad Guy?**
Name of Duncan's mortal Scottish student? **?????**
Unholy Alliance II
Why the barge was moved?**Spring floods on the Seine**
Series regular character who debuts in this episode?**Maurice**
What Duncan promises to take to the son of the dying French Guard officer in
the flashback?** His ring**
Where Renee Delaney is shot?**Right shoulder**
Color of Maurice's boat?**Pink**
The Vampire
Name of 1840 company Duncan wants to invest in?**????**
Alan Baines' vocation?**Vampire Hinter**
Names of Nicholas Ward's 2 near-brides?**???**
Duncan to Joe--"Ward earns his money the old-fashioned way--he _____________
it."**Inherits**
Who plays Ward, & the other episode the actor appears in?**He was in TWO
episodes?***
Warmonger
What is the "gift from the Proletariat" in the flashback?**Jewels**
Duncan to Eli Jarmel-"All ______ is important to me."**Life**
What Duncan takes to the dying Eli Jarmel in the hospital?**Picture of his
wife and children**
Where Duncan beheads Drake?**Airplane Hangar**
Name of Beth Vaughn's newspaper? **???**
Pharaoh's Daughter
How Duncan attracts attention in the warehouse & frightens Nefertiri? **Sets
off fire alarm**
Who plays Angela, & the other episode the actress appears in?**Can't
remember her name, but she played the sister in "Justice"**
Marcus Constantine's current profession?**Museum Curator**
How Nefertiri "kills" herself in the flashback?**Poison**
Duncan to Nefertiri--"You don't buy loyalty w/ _____."**SEX----who says
<g>***
~Rennie
//
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 7 Jun 2003 to 8 Jun 2003 (#2003-105)
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