Mar 2001 HIGHLA-L: HIGHLA-L Digest - 20 Mar 2001 to 21 Mar 2001 (#2001-103)
HIGHLA-L Digest - 20 Mar 2001 to 21 Mar 2001 (#2001-103)
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Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:00:03 -0500
There are 12 messages totalling 692 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Raven comments from a new viewer (4)
2. remove from list server
3. Fwd: remove from list server (6)
4. Peter Wingfield interview
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:43:07 +0200
From: Marina Bailey <tmar@fast.co.za>
Subject: Raven comments from a new viewer
New to HL: The Raven, that is, not HL in general. :)
When Raven came on here, I didn't bother to watch it, thinking
that if it didn't have Duncan, Richie, Methos or Joe in it, it
wasn't really "Highlander". But then it came on the Sci-Fi
Channel (British Cable version, which we get on satellite) and
I watched an occasional episode. When I did, some comments from
this list came to mind. Someone (I think it was Wendy, but I
could be wrong) said that Amanda always needs Nick's help to
win fights with other Immortals, and to get out of trouble,
and thus she isn't a good female role model.
So when I watched the episodes, I started looking for instances
of Amanda always needing Nick's help, and found surprising few
instances of this. I still haven't seen all the eps; I think
I've seen about eleven now, and of those eleven, Nick only
saved her or helped her out... once. Maybe I'll change my mind
when viewing the other eleven that I haven't seen yet, but so
far the show is MUCH better than I was led to believe from
some of the comments I've read here.
When Sci-Fi started the series over again, I started watching
from the beginning and I must say, it seems to me that the
show is 'deeper' than I thought it would be, and the characters
are certainly quite well-drawn.
I was thinking that maybe we, as HL viewers, were suffering from
Star Trek syndrome. Let me explain. When Deep Space Nine started,
a lot of people, myself included, found it very hard to get into.
It didn't fit with what we thought Trek should be. But after a
while (a LONG while), some of us realised we were watching in the
wrong frame of mind. DS9 was set in the Trek universe, but it
was built on a different set of assumptions and attitudes, and
had to be watched differently, as DS9, not as a rigid clone of
TNG. (Rigid clones of TNG seem to go nowhere... Voyager is still
lost!)
I think when I originally watched an ep or two of Raven, I had
the same problem. I was trying to watch it as though it were
HL The Series, with just a different leading character. It
didn't work. The show is not the same. It uses many of the
same ideas and rules as HL:TS but it's also different in
many areas. And, of course, being a Trek fan I do believe that
to be different is not to be wrong. And I find myself liking the
show a lot.
I think Amanda shows a lot of spunk in it, and since I have a
particular fondness for pre-Immortals and new Immortals, I
find myself really liking Nick. It's just a pity the show was
cancelled, because I'd really like to see how Nick copes with
Immortality.
To that end, are there any links to stories or websites (aside
from 7th Dim) where there is any Nick fanfic that explores
this issue? I'd be really grateful if someone could point me
to some!
It's actually good to be watching a show "unspoiled" again. I
haven't read any episode spoilers and am really enjoying not
knowing what's going to happen. I thought the show would be
terrible. Surprise, it wasn't. I'm so happy. :)
- Marina, Raven fan. Who knew.
\\ "You've heard it said that living well is ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// the best revenge? Au contraire - living || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ forever is the best revenge." - LaCroix ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//=====Marina Bailey=======tmar@fast.co.za=====|| \\
\\============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie=============//
"Cultural artifacts always come alive and take over the ship." - My
brother, watching Star Trek Voyager.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:20:44 -0000
From: Jette Goldie <jette@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Raven comments from a new viewer
Marina says:
> I think Amanda shows a lot of spunk in it, and since I have a
> particular fondness for pre-Immortals and new Immortals, I
> find myself really liking Nick. It's just a pity the show was
> cancelled, because I'd really like to see how Nick copes with
> Immortality.
>
> To that end, are there any links to stories or websites (aside
> from 7th Dim) where there is any Nick fanfic that explores
> this issue? I'd be really grateful if someone could point me
> to some!
>
"The Raven's Nest"
http://www.crosswinds.net/~hlraven/fanfic.html
(no slash on this site, Marina <g>)
> It's actually good to be watching a show "unspoiled" again. I
> haven't read any episode spoilers and am really enjoying not
> knowing what's going to happen. I thought the show would be
> terrible. Surprise, it wasn't. I'm so happy. :)
>
> - Marina, Raven fan. Who knew.
I never expected Highlander "as it was" - I expected the Amanda
Show. I got The Amanda (and Nick) Show. I liked it.
Jette
Glory may be fleeting, but obscurity is forever!
bosslady@scotlandmail.com
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fanfic.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:33:41 EST
From: jSA SURE <ZEU1S@aol.com>
Subject: remove from list server
Please Remove me frome the list server
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:34:37 EST
From: jSA SURE <ZEU1S@aol.com>
Subject: Fwd: remove from list server
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:34:44 EST
From: jSA SURE
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:34:51 EST
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:34:58 EST
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:35:19 EST
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:35:07 EST
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:52:01 +0200
From: Marina Bailey
Subject: Re: Raven comments from a new viewer
Jette writes:
>"The Raven's Nest"
>http://www.crosswinds.net/~hlraven/fanfic.html
>(no slash on this site, Marina )
Darn. :) But I'll take what I can get.
>I never expected Highlander "as it was" - I expected the Amanda
>Show. I got The Amanda (and Nick) Show. I liked it.
I think people need some kind of a support system. Duncan had
his, Amanda has hers. And there's nothing wrong with them
being very different. I'm enjoying the show a lot. Glad to
know others enjoyed it too!!
- Marina.
\\ "You've heard it said that living well is ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// the best revenge? Au contraire - living || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ forever is the best revenge." - LaCroix ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//=====Marina Bailey=======tmar@fast.co.za=====|| \\
\\============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie=============//
"Cultural artifacts always come alive and take over the ship." - My
brother, watching Star Trek Voyager.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:03:38 -0500
From: jjswbt@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Raven comments from a new viewer
Marina wrote:
>I watched an occasional episode. When I did, some comments from
>this list came to mind. Someone (I think it was Wendy, but I
>could be wrong) said that Amanda always needs Nick's help to
>win fights with other Immortals, and to get out of trouble,
>and thus she isn't a good female role model.
I don't remember saying Amanda was a poor female role model...she is sometimes..but I don't remember saying it I'm not much into role models.
As for Nick saving Amanda...you have to put it in the context of seeing the episodes in order for the first time. In only the third episode ("Bloodlines") Nick not only goes after the Immortal Morgan..but kills him. Then in the next episode ("Immunity") Nick shoots an Immortal (Collier) who is about to kill Amanda. A few episodes later ("Unknown Soldier") Nick again threatens to shoot an Immortal just as he is going to take Amanda's head. It happens three times in the first 10 episodes...and 4 of the other 7 episodes didn't even have any Immortals in them at all.
>I was thinking that maybe we, as HL viewers, were suffering from
>Star Trek syndrome. Let me explain. When Deep Space Nine started,
>a lot of people, myself included, found it very hard to get into.
>It didn't fit with what we thought Trek should be. But after a
>while (a LONG while), some of us realised we were watching in the
>wrong frame of mind. DS9 was set in the Trek universe, but it
>was built on a different set of assumptions and attitudes, and
>had to be watched differently, as DS9, not as a rigid clone of
>TNG. (Rigid clones of TNG seem to go nowhere... Voyager is still
>lost!)
Ah.. some of us hated TNG because it was a pale boring repeat of ST:TOS and loved DS9 immediately because it *was* different. Certainly I never assumed or expected or even particularly wanted Raven to be exactly like HL:TS. I wanted the same "feel"..but not the same show with Amanda just substituting for Duncan. She wasn't Duncan..she couldn't do what he did. Part of my dislike for Raven was that they tried to make her into Duncan - saving people, caring about right and wrong, walking into fights. That just wasn't the Amanda people knew from HL:TS. I never much cared for Amanda in any case but I felt it did the character a disservice to make her into the "hero". But..what else could they do? Once the decision was made to make Amanda the lead..her character had to change. To open an old can of worms..it is exactly what would happen in Methos was made the lead of a series. Soon he would be risking his life for his fellow man and waxing poetic about his conscience. Ick!
>I think Amanda shows a lot of spunk in it, and since I have a
>particular fondness for pre-Immortals and new Immortals, I
>find myself really liking Nick. It's just a pity the show was
>cancelled, because I'd really like to see how Nick copes with
>Immortality.
Of course..Nick wasn't *suppose* to be Immortal...that happened when the the Series got cancelled. PJ had been adamant that he wouldn't take the part if he was just another Immortal..he wanted to be mortal. And...if you watch the episodes without knowing that Nick ends up Immortal in the end..you can see when the shift takes place late in the season. I liked Nick once I got used to him..but I liked him as a mortal...the guy who would never know what it was like to be like Amanda..who would always be slightly on the outside looking in. The relationship with Amanda is much more interesting if Nick *isn't* pre-Immortal. ..because the viewer has to wonder why she is still around..what does she see in him..what does he touch in her.? Once he becomes Immortal...then her relationship with Nick, seen in retrospect, becomes one of obligation- she knew what he was and felt she had to stick around to be there when he died.
>When Sci-Fi started the series over again, I started watching
>from the beginning and I must say, it seems to me that the
>show is 'deeper' than I thought it would be, and the characters
>are certainly quite well-drawn.
Hmmm...I guess I didn't (don't ) see it as terribly deep..but that is, as always, a matter of opinion.
What bothered me about Raven (Not that it was just one thing) was that it did so little with an idea that could have been so much more. Yes, I know it was only the first season and these things take time to build...but they weren't starting from scratch..the lead character was already established and the premise well known. They picked a female Immortal for the lead..I assume they would then use her to show us a different view of Immortality. What was it like being a woman and Immortal in the Dark Ages? How did she handle being an independent woman in times when that was frowned on? Did she ever settle down a with a man and live a normal life? Did she ever long for children? Did she tell someone she loved and have them hate her? Did she ever retreat from life to HG - or do only guys do that? But we didn't see any of that. What we saw was that Amanda was always the same..until she met Nick. Then ..wham bang thank you ma'am..Amanda has a conscience..Amanda stands and fight!
!
s ..Amanda cares about law and order and the American way. Suddenly she settles down to play Nancy Drew with an ex-cop and all exploration of what and who she was just sorta..stopped. Except for being able to die and revive on command..she could have been any mortal sidekick.Her Immortality became a ..gimmick.
Not to mention..she and Nick never rattled the headboards. Not even one.
Phooey!
Wendy(I can forgive a bad show a lot if there is decent headboard rattling .)
Fairy Killer
jjswbt@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jjswbt/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:56:44 -0800
From: Ith
Subject: Peter Wingfield interview
Some of you have read Abbie's interviews and articles in the past on the
Mothership/EON. Unfortunately, they closed down a bit ago. But good news,
she found a new home!
Part One of her three-part interview with Peter Wingfield will be up at IF
(Independent Film) Magazine this Friday, Mar. 23, with parts 2 and 3
appearing on subsequent Fridays. The URL is
www.ifmagazine.com
Denise * ithildin@ondragonswing.com* Ith
http://www.ondragonswing.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dragon's Hoard Fic Archive
http://www.ondragonswing.com/vortex
Drop by to read, or submit a story!
------------------------------
End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 20 Mar 2001 to 21 Mar 2001 (#2001-103)
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