HIGHLA-L Digest - 15 Jul 2001 to 16 Jul 2001 - Special issue
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@LISTS.PSU.EDU)
Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:20:56 -0400
There are 8 messages totalling 885 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. K/S, sociology and other stuff (Was: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers) (2)
2. K/S, sociology and other stuff (Was: ATTN: All Fan Fic writer s) (2)
3. Characters and bathrooms....
4. More about Slash. Same Sex warning (2)
5. The Highlander Slash FAQ (same sex warning, duh)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 16:23:41 -1000
From: Geiger <geiger@maui.net>
Subject: Re: K/S, sociology and other stuff (Was: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers)
Marina--
> Oh, slash
> fans are still accused of being perverts (until Nina I had never
> been accused of being a criminal before)
I never said any such thing about _slash fans_, as you implied above. I
said distributing fanfic is illegal. I said people who don't care about the
law or the consequences of their actions & instead do whatever is fun for
them frequently populate prisons & kindergartens. But I didn't single out
slash writers or slash fans. Slash is no more illegal than any other type
of fanfic, unless you're talking pornography. I do think the combination of
slash (or another extremist form of fanfic) & Internet distribution may well
cause the fanfic matter to come to a head, but I never said anything at all
like what you mentioned above, about slash fans. I expect an apology. It
would also be nice if you read & wrote here more carefully.
> Consequently, most slash stories are very well written.
Compared to WHAT? If you really think that, you need to read some other
stuff for comparison, beyond fanfic--try some professionally written
material for a change. A phone book, even....
Nina
geiger@maui.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 16:42:45 -1000
From: Geiger <geiger@maui.net>
Subject: Re: K/S, sociology and other stuff (Was: ATTN: All Fan Fic writer s)
Carmel (rationalizing DM/M)--
>>>I could name numerous other instances, many to do with
trying to explain why Methos took the time and effort that he constantly did
with Duncan to keep him safe.>>>
OK, so you're saying that Methos did all he did for DM _because he in
lust_??? That's just such a bizarre rationalization, & if taken seriously,
it weakens the whole HL universe or at least makes it rather laughable. As
opposed Methos' reason being--oh, I don't know--because DM was the best
Immortal Methos ever saw in 5000 years, in terms of the Gathering, the
Prize, etc.???
Carmel--
> Don't tell me that Methos has
> lived that long, through some of the most decadent empires in the world,
and
> not had male lovers and orgies.
So, you are saying that sex between 2 men is decadent? Since "decadent" is
a synonym for corrupt, immoral, degenerate, depraved, debased, dissolute &
perverted, that's an odd view for you, or any slash fan/writer.
Carmel--
> If Bill thought it was damaging the franchise I have no doubt
> that he would have done something about it by now.
Huh? If "damaging the franchise" is the standard, how come BP allowed HL2,
HL3, season 6 of HL:TS, Raven, & HL:EG?
Nina
geiger@maui.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:39:44 +1000
From: Carmel Macpherson <Carmel@stuartfieldhouse.com>
Subject: Re: K/S, sociology and other stuff (Was: ATTN: All Fan Fic writer s)
Hi all
Nina said: <<..OK, so you're saying that Methos did all he did for DM
_because he in lust_???..>>
Carmel: ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying that.....
Nina: <<..So, you are saying that sex between 2 men is decadent?...>>
Carmel: ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying that.....
Nina: <<..Huh? If "damaging the franchise" is the standard, how come BP
allowed HL2,
HL3, season 6 of HL:TS, Raven, & HL:EG?..>>
Carmel: Why don't you ask him Nina??
Kind regards to all
Carmel (ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying
that.....ROTFLMAO...er...no, Nina...I'm not saying that.....etc etc...ad
iinfinitum....maybe I could have a stamp made and we could sell different
colored copies at Reunion????
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:01:30 -0400
From: LC Krakowka <liser@lightlink.com>
Subject: Re: K/S, sociology and other stuff (Was: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers)
I said:
>
> >When I first started writing and reading HL fic, it was overwhelmingly
>>predominantly het. I blame Methos for the infusion of so much slash.
>><g>
Marina:
>The Old Guy gets it every time. <g> The blame! He gets the *blame*!!
Absolutely. As much as I adore Methos, this is all his fault. <G> I
also happen to think that the CAH arc was both the best thing and the
worst for Highlander. But that's a different topic. :-)
>
>Slash, in fandom, is more acceptable than it used to be. Oh, slash
>fans are still accused of being perverts (until Nina I had never
>been accused of being a criminal before)
I don't find slash fans to be either perverse or criminal. Sometimes
I find the character assassination (to use Wendy's terms) to be a
criminal act on the part of the writers... <g>
Me:
>
>>See...and this is where my "problem" with slash begins. It *doesn't*
>>make sense with what I saw on the screen.
Marina:
>Aha! What *you* saw on the screen! I saw something that definitely
>supported the possibility. But all that tells us is that we have
>different perceptions, and so what? We can have them.
Yep. Yep. And that's what Carmel and I have been talking about.
Different perceptions. Different interpretations. And I don't have
a problem with the concept of two people seeing the same thing two
different ways. What I have a problem with is the tendency (in my
experience) for slash fans to *insist* that "their way" is right and
I am blind/prudish/dumb/homophobic/wrong for seeing things MY way.
>
>>I can buy Methos as
>>bi-sexual (though I don't see any canonical evidence for
>>it--everything is to the contrary...). But, I'm sorry, I just don't
>>believe that Duncan is.
Marina:
>Well, if we go by canon, then immortals don't go to the toilet
>either. (I'm sorry. I couldn't help it.)
Oh...you know...this one is just as weak as the "Methos lived for
5000 Years" argument, IMO. I know *you* were just kidding....but
people DO use this as justification. Lack of evidence for one thing
is not evidence for another. Period.
Me, to Carmel:
>
>>I think you're probably more discerning than the "average" slash fan--
>>if there is such a thing.
Marina:
>Trust me, there isn't. But unlike Carmel, I do like porn. <g> And I
>like to think that I am discerning. I do not equate slash with porn
>either - both have their 'place' (for want of a better word). Porn,
>as Carmel said, only concerns itself with body parts. Slash, however,
>concerns itself with people and emotions. That is the most important
>distinction. To accuse slash fans of writing porn (not that anyone
>did) is to do us a great disservice.
There is plenty of het fic that concerns itself with people and emotions, too.
>
>The 'challenge' of slash is to put characters together who might *not*
>necessarily have had homosexual thoughts before.
How does this equate with the theory that you see slashy subtext, then?
>
>And expanding on the idea of slash being a 'challenge' - has anyone
>noticed that movies and TV series that actually have gay characters
>in them are seldom slashed? Yes, one can find slash for, say, "Queer
>as Folk", but for every QaF story out there, there are about *500*
>Sentinel slash stories. To use a semi-HL example - I think Eric
>McCormack is a babe. But I wouldn't want to slash his character
>from Will & Grace. Why bother? It's been done for me, by TPTB of
>that TV show. However, if I really had an urge to slash a
>character who looked like him (NOT him - a CHARACTER), then I
>might write about Matthew McCormick and Carl Robinson doing it
>on the plantation. There would be all sorts of issues to explore
>- slave vs. owner, Immortal vs. Immortal, etc. What would there
>be to explore from Will & Grace? Gay NY attorneys??
So...and I'm sure you'll whap me with your flagpole if I'm wrong here
<g>... part of the thrill of slash is the clandestine nature of it?
It's no fun read or write about two gay men in a relationship...there
has to be the "badness" (forgive the word--it's the only one I can
find) of slashing someone who otherwise wouldn't be in that situation?
>I do not want to wade through Mary Sue stories disguised as
>adventures,
I'm with Wendy. I think that SOME slash is Mary Sue in
disguise--laboring under the delusion that it can't be labeled as
such if the character isn't female.
Me:
> >And--on screen-we don't see Duncan
>>lusting after Methos or vise-verse. We see two men who are friends
>>and have a pretty intense relationship. Looking beyond that to
>>subtext is fine if that's how you want to play the game, but it's not
>>canon. It could be--in another time, another place, another
>>movie/series/novel....but it's not within the context of the six
>>seasons we watched.
Marina:
>Back to that. I am agreed with you, actually. And I remember Sandy
>mentioning this the last time we had this discussion. Slash is not
>*in* the show. We know that. We extrapolate slash *from* the show,
>and really go off into our own little alternate universe. And that's
>fine.
Yes, it's fine. And dandy, even. :-) I just don't grok it. To
each their own, as they say. I wish I DID understand it, though. I
feel like I'm missing out on something. :-)
>
>Well, my argument would be that since Methos' goal is to survive,
>that he'll do anything.
Okay. But I think there is a difference between doing anything *to
survive* and having random homosexual/bisexual relationships.
>And doesn't seem to have any code of
>behaviour the way Duncan does.
Very true.
>This is a man who was Death. He
>killed ten thousand - and enjoyed it. (And he has female fans
>who *like* him that way!) And we're worried whether he might have
>boinked men somewhere along the line??!
I'm not worried that he might have boinked some dudes along the way.
Outside of canon, it's perfectly possible and doesn't bother me in
the slightest. Outside of canon.
>(The implication being, of
>course, that to some people it's better for Methos to go around
>murdering people than to be bisexual or homosexual.)
Oh, wow. I don't know that I would have drawn THAT conclusion, but...
>
>>For all we know, Methos wasn't anywhere NEAR the places in the world
>>where homosexuality and orgies were common when that was the norm in
>>society.
>
>Um, "We ate, we drank, we vomited"?? That time and place were
>right for orgies...
Okay. Forgot about that line.
>
>>What we're talking about here is Carmel-canon....not series canon.
>
>And that's fine. We know it isn't series canon. And (I hate to put
>it this way, BUT) we don't care. We're off into slashy territory,
>and that isn't canon. We're agreed!
Yes, we're agreed that canon is not slash...err...that slash is not
canon. Sorry...Monday at an ungodly hour.
>
>>I can't speak for the Weasel, but, for me, it's always helpful to my
>>level of understanding when someone takes the time to explain it
>>instead of getting indignant in the face of a question. ;-)
>
>It's a lot easier not to get indignant when people don't accuse one
>of being childish, or insinuating that one should be locked up.
Agreed. Which is why I've always tried to be genuine in my questions
about slash and in both my attempts to "get it" and my arguments
"against it".
Liser
--
--
Lisa Krakowka ** liser@lightlink.com
Originality does not consist in saying what no one has
ever said before, but in saying exactly what you think yourself.
--James Stephen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:20:18 +0200
From: Tarryn Zank <Zankt@nu.ac.za>
Subject: Characters and bathrooms....
Marina said something like this (I deleted it without thinking):
'If we believed all HL canon, then Immortals don't need to go to the toilet.'
*snerk*
That's what I like about Babylon 5 - they go to the toilet! We've only seen 3 seasons so far, but I'm sure it was Garibaldi who had to rush off, or was late coming to a meeting because he'd been to the bathroom.
I was relieved (sorry! bad pun, naughty pun, sneaky in there like that!) to find restrooms in the bluepints for the Starship Enterprise 'D'. Maybe when you see all those crew-people constantly going through the doors of the Bridge, that's what they are doing, 'cause the bathrooms are right around the corner. But could they please install seat belts! Surely all those years of rolling around the bridge (Marina, stop it! I didn't write this so you could slash it! *g*) should have clued them in that they need them? DO the crew have to fill in little survey cards on what they find good/bad about their employment?
Okay, obligatory HL reference - What happens in a fight (or a quickening, for that matter) if you really have to pee, would your opponent wait for you to finish, or whack you from behind? (What a way to go! - pun, you're hanging around again)
Sorry, it's monday, and you have to get in a mood to be able to face the week sometimes.
Tarryn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:05:48 +0200
From: Marina Bailey <fdd-tmar@netactive.co.za>
Subject: Re: More about Slash. Same Sex warning
This is part of an essay I wrote on the whys of slash. It's
really aimed at Wendy, because she asked. :) The points
aren't argued in a lot of detail, because it was on my slash
page, and by putting it there I was really preaching to the
converted.
Slash Fanfic: My View (excerpt)
I think it's very simple: slash has to do with the chemistry between
characters on screen. Quite usually, the characters who are slashed
will have at least two of the following characteristics: they are both
loners; both are married to their jobs; they are dependant on each other
for survival; they spend most of their off-duty time together; they are
complete opposites, each man's strengths compensating for the other one's
weaknesses; there is genuine liking and affection for each other; their
bond is considered 'more important' than romantic entanglements they
might each get into; women take a back seat to the friendship.
The characteristics mentioned in the above paragraph are also usually,
but not always, coupled with a lack of strong female characters in that
particular show. There are no women *available*, there are no female
constants in the lives of these characters, so anytime a romance or love
story is required, the female character must be brought in from outside.
Not surprisingly, these female characters end up being pretty
inconsequential to the show as a whole, and they are not allowed to
interfere with the men's friendship.
There are, of course, a few shows out there which do have strong female
characters, and yet these still seem to attract slash writers. In these
cases, the primary relationship in the show is usually still the one
between the men, or the female characters are presented as 'sexless' or
'forbidden'. Let's face it: even in the most enlightened shows, the men
usually tend to get the bulk of the good stories.
There is also another consideration for why writers choose to write slash
instead of gen or heterosexual erotic stories. This is the fact that the
people who make the shows usually give all the best material to the male
characters, making them the most 'real' characters in the show. Thus, a
fanfic writer will want to use those characters because she feels
comfortable with them, she feels that she 'knows' them. It's also
rewarding to write these characters we love so much going through
obstacles to love and ending up happy.
So, for those of us who like to write romance and erotica, we have
basically three options:
1. Use female characters from the show. But regular
female characters are often just not interesting, and guest stars
are often not significant enough to warrant stories in which they
interact with the male characters. So this is not an option I go for
much myself.
2. Bring in one's own female character. This is done quite
a lot in non-slash stories. But all too often, if a writer does this
she is accused of writing a Mary Sue, even when she definitely hasn't.
I personally don't often find these stories worthwhile - I want to read
about characters I know. I'm not interested in female characters created
by other fanfic writers.
3. Write slash. At least in slash the writer gets to use
well-defined, well-established characters, characters which she and her
target audience are interested in. And in slash there is far more story
potential and more issues to explore than in het stories. Slash is a
challenge for a writer - and some, like myself, enjoy taking up the
challenge and seeing if we can make a love story between two male friends
believable.
Lastly, let me sum up with a quotation from a fellow slash fan: "I
definitely like the male/male dynamic in slash pairings - there's a
certain style to it that is tremendously attractive. Or maybe it's just
that they're BOTH so attractive to me! Loving both of them myself, it's
pure delight to see them love each other. And I adore first time stories
because you get to watch them struggle within themselves to get past the
barriers that keep them from expressing their feelings for each other.
Those barriers are a lot more complex in a slash pairing, which is
probably why the act of surmounting them, and succeeding in the
expression of love and caring, is much more emotionally satisfying with
a slash pair than with a het pair."
--------------
Questions? Comments? Wendy?
- Marina.
\\ "But then, we saw that Obi-Wan doth look upon ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// Qui-Gon with lust, and that Mr. Lucas was not || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ likely to include that in the next movie, so we ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// said screw it and wrote it ourselves." - Warning || \\
\\ page of the 'Master & Apprentice' slash site || //
//==fdd-tmar@netactive.co.za=Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie==\\
I want to go back to my home planet - if someone would please tell
me where it is! - Tarryn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:05:46 +0200
From: Marina Bailey <fdd-tmar@netactive.co.za>
Subject: Re: More about Slash. Same Sex warning
Wendy wrote:
>Marina and I continue a 5+ year discussion on slash.
And it's been fun, I'm sure you'll agree.
Hey, school starts again today, so I might not post as much. (Everybody
try to contain their disappointment. <g>)
>I have read many theories on why people like/write slash. And I have my
own >theories <eg>.
We *all* have our own theories. Tell me yours! (I won't get offended.
After being called a criminal, I doubt a little slash theory could
offend me.)
>Well...as usual..you have to buy the premise to buy the bit.
That's the thing - to me, slash is not only about buying the premise.
It's often trying to get readers to accept a possibility. I never
thought slash made sense, either, until I read some good stories.
When I first started with HL fanfic, I was quite... shocked... to
read D/M stories. Like, "Huh? What? Are these people nuts?" Then I
read Kellie and Julia's crossover trilogy (Dark into Light?) and
it set the whole thing up so well (although the premise there was
harder to accept - it was occurring in the TNG universe) that I
kept saying to Kellie and Julia, "Okay, we had our little threesome!
(which was with a woman) When are Duncan and Methos going to do
the deed by themselves??"
It was all downhill from there, I'm afraid... <g>
>This has always interested/bothered me. Assuming you meant fanfic of all
>fandoms (not just HL) I continue to wonder what it is about male/male
>pairings that you find so fascinating that no other relationship between
>any other characters in any other fandom interests you.
Well... most fandoms. I like het Beauty and the Beast fanfic. Also,
some het Stargate fanfic. Other than that, slash all the way.
>It seems that you *only* find male/male relationships interesting.
>Can you, maybe, explain why (again) ?
I wish I could. I will dig up my essays on the topic and post
them in another message.
>Wasn't really trying to upset you <g>
I knew that. Just a figure of speech. :)
>just trying to find some other activity that was illegal and which a
>fair number of people insisted is their right to engage in regardless
>of the law. Drugs and prostitution came to mind.
Oh, I know.
>I can't imagine what the "right" slash would be...if, in the end, it
>slashed two characters which I didn't believe would reasonably become
>lovers.
The right slash would, IMNSHO, be able to make you believe that, within
the context of that story, these characters would do X, Y and Z.
>Slash writers take perfectly good characters and change them so as to be
>radially different than what was portrayed originally - not unlike TPTB
>taking Amanda's character in HL:TS and changing her into an unrecognizable
>creature in Raven.
Which just goes to show that it's not only fans who do it. :)
>I think what I've said is that *if* I were going to see any slashy
>behavior between Duncan and Methos, the "look" in "Chivalry" would be it.
>That's it.
I know. But I just *had* to use it.
>Further, I have always been under the impression that many slashers
>(is that the right term?)(seems too violent)
Yes, it is. Some women use "slash sluts" but that sounds even worse.
A friend of mine said we should be called "slashketeers", but I
haven't managed to get it to catch on yet. :)
>don't actually need any on-screen "evidence" or "perception" to work from...
>that any two male character were "fair game".
Correct. As I stated, it's a writing challenge to take characters who
may or may not be attracted to each other, and pair them up.
>No...we know Duncan pees<eg>
Duncan and Brian Cullen. Not Richie. Not Amanda. At least Richie and
Amanda take baths/showers.
>"Richie entered the apartment and tossed his wet coat toward the coat
>tree in the corner. Duncan approached, towel in hand. "Let me help you,"
>Duncan offered with a sly gleam in his eye........."
Wendy, you evil woman you!! <g>
>Ok..so those are all the "first time" stories.
>Aren't those, in their own way, as repetitive and boring as the
>"where do Immortals come from" stories you dislike so much?
I suppose so. I guess it comes down to what a person finds
repetitive in stories. A friend of mine, for example, didn't like
Quantum Leap because "it's the same every week. He leaps in, fixes
history, and leaps out." And I couldn't believe my ears - every
episode was *totally* different. He was never in the same place
or time, never had the same profession, etc. I watched it for
the *details*, my friend only saw the *structure*. I think this is
the same thing.
>Second, I remain convinced that much slash is just Mary Sue in disguise...
>after all , you can't accuse a female writer of writing a Mary Sue if all
>the characters are male!
I don't agree. This has been argued before, by others, and I really
don't think that's the case. I do not want to "be" either of the
characters... I want *them* to be *together*.
>Third, the characterizations and emotions that slash is "chock-full of"
>are often alien to the characters as seen on screen and, worse (to my mind)
>alien to men in general. The male characters in slash most often seem to
>act the way women *wish* men would act in relationships with women.
Well, I disagree. (Big shock there, heh.) In my own writing I try
to make the character act the way I think he would... I don't want to
turn him into a stereotype. Saying that "men don't do that" or whatever
is, to me, falling into the trap of seeing the characters as stereotypes
instead of people (albeit fictional people).
>I know you were joking..but...do you think that Duncan and Methos would
>be having any more "fun" than Duncan and, say, Amanda?
No, but I don't want to write about Amanda. Except maybe with Nick. I
like Nick.
>I comprehend that you find depictions of m/m sex more arousing than
>depictions of m/f sex..but I doubt that the actual participants are
>having more or less fun one way or the other.
Not more arousing... I just find the slash dynamic more interesting.
>I can't remember ever reading a slash story that did not have at least
>one sex scene. Did I just get "lucky" or is there less slash fanfic
>that is asexual (if you know what I mean).
Actually, yes, you do get slash stories in which there is no sex. Not
that I read them. <g>
>Do you like those more, less, or the same as those that include sex scenes.
I don't like them. Might as well be a gen story, and I don't read those.
>Is it still considered slash if there is no sex... or is that considered
>some other type of fanfic?
No, it's still slash. If the characters are a couple (they must *know*
they are a couple, of course), then it's slash. The story does not
have to have sex in it.
Strangely enough, I tend to read stories labelled only R or NC-17... but
I skim over the sex scenes. Go figure. (If you want to psychoanalyse me
at this point, Wendy, go right ahead. Because I haven't the faintest
idea why that would be. Just be nice!)
>("Richie looked at Duncan and smiled. The Highlander was so transparent
>at times. "You can dry my back," Richie said as he stripped off his damp
>shirt. Duncan moved behind Richie, placing a hand on his shoulder. The heat
>of the younger man's skin aroused heat of a different kind in Duncan......")
I wrote one where they took a shower together. If I recall, you didn't
like it much! Never wrote another one (with Richie) because it was too
difficult. He doesn't like being slashed.
- Marina.
\\ "But then, we saw that Obi-Wan doth look upon ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// Qui-Gon with lust, and that Mr. Lucas was not || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ likely to include that in the next movie, so we ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// said screw it and wrote it ourselves." - Warning || \\
\\ page of the 'Master & Apprentice' slash site || //
//==fdd-tmar@netactive.co.za=Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie==\\
I want to go back to my home planet - if someone would please tell
me where it is! - Tarryn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:05:50 +0200
From: Marina Bailey <fdd-tmar@netactive.co.za>
Subject: The Highlander Slash FAQ (same sex warning, duh)
The Highlander Slash FAQ
Written by Marina Bailey (in 1998 or 99) at the behest of the people on
HLFIC-L. Feel free to ask me if you have additional questions. With
thanks to AC for the beta.
1. What is slash?
Slash is a very specific subgenre of fan fiction. To put it briefly,
slash posits a romantic (usually sexual) relationship between two series
protagonists of the same gender.
1a. Could you put that in English please?
In slash two male or two female characters from a show get together and do
the wild thing. Okay?
2. Where did slash originate?
As near as anybody can figure out, slash grew out of the hurt/comfort
genre in Star Trek fan fiction, when one writer took a h/c story between
Kirk and Spock just a little further and made it sexual. Fans of other
shows picked up on it, and you will now find slash writers in almost every
fandom.
3. Why call it "slash"?
Fans started calling this genre "slash" because of the punctuation mark
("/") used to denote a relationship between two characters, as in
"Duncan/Methos", "Richie/Methos", "Methos/Byron", etc.
3a. Well, I read a Mulder/Scully story. That has the punctuation mark. Is
that slash?
No. Slash only refers to same-sex relationships. People who try to call
*any* non-canon pairing "slash" are deluded, and are confusing the newcomers
to fandom.
4. Who writes slash, and why?
Most slash stories are written by women. This is probably because most
slash stories are about men. This makes sense when you notice that all
too often, the most dynamic characters in a show are the men. Quite often,
people don't want to read stories about OFCs (original female characters)
or about minor characters of the opposite sex. No, they want to read about
the main characters - who are usually male. Slash fills that quota nicely.
Also, it's a generally accepted fact that many men like the idea of two
beautiful women together... so why shouldn't it follow that women like the
idea of two gorgeous guys together? Makes sense to me!
5. So, you make characters in slash gay?
No. Yes. It depends on who you ask. Some writers write their characters
as gay, very many don't. Some slash writers I've spoken to think the issue
is irrelevant, especially where Immortals are concerned. In the slash
fandoms, writers have written stories where the characters called themselves
gay, and stories where they haven't. I personally don't see that it matters
- my own stories deal with one person falling in love with another person;
their gender is irrelevant. And I think I can safely say that the people who
*read* slash don't care either way.
6. There is no number six. (Or maybe you are number six.)
7. But isn't slash wrong/disgusting/sick/illogical?
According to what? If you see slash as being morally wrong because of your
religion, why are you reading this FAQ in the first place? It surely isn't
going to change your mind. If the idea of two men (or women, but in
Highlander fandom 99% of the time it's men, and I will refer to men from now
on) together squicks you, why are you even bothering to read this?
As for slash being illogical... It really depends upon one's view of the
characters. Has Duncan or Methos or Richie or Joe (or Kronos or Silas or...)
ever been shown having sex with another person of the same gender? Of course
not. They had to get the show on TV. To some people the fact that it was
never shown is enough to make them assume that said character is 100%
straight and "would never do that". To others, just because something isn't
shown doesn't necessarily mean that it hasn't, doesn't or can't happen. And
some writers feel that in the right circumstances, Duncan (or Methos or
Richie or...) would get involved with someone of the same sex. It really
comes down to point of view. Slash, like beauty, is in the eye of the
beholder.
8. What about the moral issues?
The problem here is, not everyone can agree on just what the "moral issues"
are. Are fans technically supposed to write fanfic based on TV shows? No.
And if TPTB decided that slash couldn't exist because of copyrights, then
they would unfortunately also have to decree that all *other* fanfic
shouldn't exist either. To ban slash only would open them to accusations of
homophobia. All fanfic technically violates copyright. *All* of it. But
most Powers That Be look the other way because fanfic sustains interest
in their shows.
9. Wouldn't the actors be offended if they knew about slash?
Who knows - and it doesn't really matter, because the actors aren't the
characters they play. (Peter Wingfield is apparently highly amused by the
whole thing.) And let's face it, what fan is going to go out of their way
to bring slash stories to the attention of TPTB or the actors? That's like
writing a Star Wars story and mailing it to George Lucas - do that, and
you're in an asteroid belt with no hyperdrive.
10. But you shouldn't write that!
Slash fans resent this attitude most of all. The whole point of having
freedom of speech is being able to say, read or write what a person wants
to. If slash isn't for you, fine. Don't read it. But don't try and tell
other people what to do. This may be a cliche, but nobody can force someone
to read slash. Slash stories always (or at least 99% of the time) carry
warnings as to their content, so that people who like it can read it, and
those who don't can hit the delete key. If you dislike slash, don't read it
just so you can rant about how much it disgusted you - hit the delete key.
That's what it's there for.
11. Can we get onto Highlander now?
Okay.
12. Whatever possesses people to write stories about Duncan and Methos,
Methos and Kronos, and so on?
The relationship of Duncan and Methos on screen seems to some fans to be
very slashy, or at least filled with UST (unresolved sexual tension). Can
you say "subtext"? There are numerous instances in the show which slash fans
think supports the idea that there's more to the relationship between Duncan
and Methos than meets the eye. I will just list a few.
- "Chivalry". The nose-painting scene. It has been pointed out that men
generally don't go around painting one another's noses. Also, at a
convention Peter Wingfield said that if Duncan had done something like
that to a woman, everyone would have known exactly what it meant. I invite
you to draw your own conclusions.
- "The Messenger". Methos lounging on Duncan's bed. Now, I don't know any
men who'd go to another one's house and lie down on their bed like they
owned it, I really don't. So either Methos is needling Duncan, or there's
something else going on. As a slash fan, I go for the second of the two
options.
- "Deliverance". Why would Methos, Mister-I-don't-want-a-tombstone, the
survivor, leave a dying woman in order to try and save someone who'd as
quickly kill him as not if he didn't care deeply for the true Duncan
MacLeod? Just a question you should ask yourself.
- "Comes a Horseman". The scene at the 4X4. There's a lot of manhandling (no
pun intended) going on in that scene, and the look on Duncan's face when he
says, "We're through", says it all. At least, it says it all if you're a
slash fan.
- "Revelation 6:8". Kronos and Methos. There sure does seem to be a lot of
UST between those two, and apparently back in that age, the word "brother"
had a completely different connotation to now. Hmmm.
- "Revelation 6:8". The hideous spiral Quickening. Yeah, it looks
horrendous. Peter Wingfield thinks it was homoerotic. 'Nuff said.
- "The Modern Prometheus". The scene with Byron and Mary. Okay, Duncan isn't
in it, but when Byron grabbed Methos by the neck and suggested that the two
of them take advantage of Mary, you could have fried eggs on the TV screen.
13. Aren't you people reading something into the show that isn't there? I
can explain each of the above instances in a non-slashy way.
Of course you could. That's the beauty of the medium. Each person brings
their own preconceptions and ideas to the show. So people who enjoy slash
will bring with them a predisposition to see slash in certain parts. People
who don't, won't. Each person will see each episode slightly differently -
and that is perfectly all right. There is no right or wrong in how one
interprets any piece of film or TV show. As I have already stated, slash is
in the eye of the beholder.
14. I'd like to read more about this. Where can I find other articles on
slash?
(I deleted the URLs because they aren't current.)
-----------------------
\\ "But then, we saw that Obi-Wan doth look upon ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// Qui-Gon with lust, and that Mr. Lucas was not || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ likely to include that in the next movie, so we ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// said screw it and wrote it ourselves." - Warning || \\
\\ page of the 'Master & Apprentice' slash site || //
//==fdd-tmar@netactive.co.za=Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie==\\
I want to go back to my home planet - if someone would please tell
me where it is! - Tarryn
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 15 Jul 2001 to 16 Jul 2001 - Special issue (#2001-203)
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