HIGHLA-L Digest - 14 Jul 2001 to 15 Jul 2001 - Special issue
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@LISTS.PSU.EDU)
Sun, 15 Jul 2001 07:19:19 -0400
There are 14 messages totalling 819 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. ATTN: All Fan Fic writers (3)
2. K/S, sociology and other stuff (Was: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers) (3)
3. YKYBWTMHLW....was/Re: Belated (not admin): Endgame Spoiler lifetime is
over
4. Morality (4)
5. K/S, sociology and other stuff (Was: ATTN: All Fan Fic writer s)
6. YKYBWTMHLW....was/Re: Belated (not admin): Endgame Spoiler
lifetime is over
7. K/S, sociology and other stuff (Was: ATTN: All Fan Fic
writers)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:05:26 EDT
From: Ashton7@aol.com
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
In a message dated 7/14/01 7:38:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jette@blueyonder.co.uk writes:
<< John says
> Making the assumption that there aren't any guests attending the Reunion
Con
> who will be mortally offended by the LACK of slash questions,
Nah, Rich and Max ain't coming, are they? ;-) >>
OH, goodness! I forgot all about those delicious moments at Chronicles when
Richard Ridings started bellowing out "Let's have some SLASH questions!!!!"
and "Is it time for the slash questions???" LOLOLOL It was too, too funny.
(Valentine Pelka was there... I don't remember him being particularly
appalled with Rich later on!)
Annie CWPack
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:10:15 -0400
From: LC Krakowka <liser@lightlink.com>
Subject: Re: K/S, sociology and other stuff (Was: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers)
Sheesh, take one little kick to the jaw from a horse and come back a
week later to find the list neck-deep in one of my favorite subjects!
You could have warned me, guys. It's not like vicodan would have
prevented me from weighing in on the topic. :-)
Marina said:
>>Bad luck they're having. If I don't like something... I ignore it. I
>>hit delete. They can too. Slash zines or URLs don't follow people
>>around yelling, "Read me, read me!"
Sandy:
>But I think you (and a few others) are misreading what Wendy is saying. As
>I see it, the people who don't like slash can be split into 2 groups. Most
>people who don't like slash do exactly what you said. They just don't read
>it. They hit the delete button. I'll call them Group A cuz I think that's
>the larger of the two groups. They don't pontificate about the horrors of
>slash, but they have an opinion and are entitled to express it in
>discussions about slash without being jumped on. Then there is Group B
>which consists of people who don't like slash and who feel that no one
>should like it, write it, or read it.
>
>I think the problem is that both groups always get the same response from
>slash writers/readers/likers/lovers. The two groups aren't saying the same
>thing, and the responses to them should reflect that.
Speaking perfectly frankly here, I think that half the problem with
any discussion about slash (and I've seen quite a few in various
places over the years) is precisely that reaction from those who
write/read/love it.
I have made it somewhat of a personal "quest" in fandom to figure out
slash. Like Wendy, I understand it on an intellectual level, but
just don't get it in my gut. To that end, I have been asking just
about anyone who would talk to me about it for help in understanding
for...well...a long time now. Here, in my experience, is the typical
pattern of a slash-related discussion on any list--be it a writers'
list, a readers' list, or a discussion list:
1. Someone brings up slash in some capacity.
2. People square up on one of three sides of a fence: "like it",
"hate it", "don't get it". (okay, so it's a triangular fence...)
3. Some of the members on the list try to have a rational discussion
about it--sharing things and explanations from all sides.
3a. Someone in the "like it" category says something like "If you
don't like slash, you must be homophobic"
3b. People get offended.
3c. Someone in the "hate it" category says either "It's a morally
corrupt genre" or "All slash is perverted and people who like it or
read it or write it are perverts"
3d. People get offended.
3e. People in the "don't get it" category try to continue the
conversation, still looking for help in understanding it--all the
while getting blasted from both other categories because lumping
together is a common trait in humans--you're either with us, or
against us. There is no middle ground.
3f. People get offended.
4. The list blows up.
The other half of that problem I mentioned above? The one that
doesn't lie with the "like it" folks? It's the "hate it" folks,
waving banners of their own. This is one topic that is absolutely
guaranteed to split a fandom. It's right up there with killing a
character and resolving sexual tension.
I've been writing fic in the HL fandom since 1995. I've seen some
trends in genre and style come and go. I've seen authors rise and
fall in popularity--done it myself, even. I think the trend that
disturbs me most, though is the...oh...how to phrase it?
Heee heee....it's the creation of a Slash Inner Circle. (Hello, Pot?
Yeah, this is Liser...you're black.) In an earlier post, Marina
mentioned that she only reads slash. Hey, that's cool. Everyone is
entitled to read and write what they like. Some people only read
Duncan stories, or Methos stories...or refuse to read anything with
an OFC. There has always been a line between those who read slash
and those who don't. What's happened, though, IMO, is that the line
became a DMZ--complete with barbed wire and guard towers. (Is it like
that in every fandom, or are we just a special breed?)
And then people start justifying on every side of the argument. The
actors don't like it. The actors love it. It's a violation of
copyright. Bill Panzer told me himself that he finds it
scintillating.
What-the-frell-ever. Read what you want. Don't read what you don't
want. Pass the lube. Pass the rosary beads. Slap my ass and call
me Richie Ryan. Just please, PLEASE, don't pretend that the grass is
any greener on your side of that fence. It's not.
There is no moral higher ground. We're all stuck here at eye-level.
Liser
(sekrit message to Annie: my favorite bumper sticker ever is "My
karma ran over your dogma")(well....that and "Come the Rapture! Can I
have you car?")(but that second one is off topic...)
--
LC Krakowka ** liser@lightlink.com
"The creations of a great writer are little more than the moods and
passions of his own heart, given surnames and Christian names, and
sent to walk the earth." --W. B. Yeats, letter to editor - 1895
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:55:05 -0400
From: KLZ <zklee@patriot.net>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
> Yes, he had his own rather strict moral
> code--though he seemed to
> violate it fairly often. He was strict on some things,
> such as honor and
> responsibility for one's actions, and he was often a lot
> stricter with
> *himself* than he was with others. Sometimes he was
> inconsistent. Sometimes
> he realized he was wrong. But as much as he tried to
> convince various
> people like Annie Devlin, Amanda, Richie, Methos, et al.
> to see the world
> his way, neither did he judge them as being "less moral"
> than he. Frankly,
> the whole Highlander world seemed often to be about those
> shades of gray
I think that it was this characteristic about Duncan that
attracted me to the series. He was raised in a structured
culture, and formed strong standards of morality and honor.
Those standards don't necessarily correspond with those of the
modern world, especially concerning marriage and sex, but he's
got the standards. The problem is that his whole neat,
organized, moral, honorable world got turned on its ear the
moment he came back from death the first time. Ever since, he's
been trying to reconcile his immortal life with his standards.
Every time he tries to take a moral stand, or define himself as a
good person, he trips over that gosh-shanged sword. He's gone in
the direction of being judgmental, and that didn't work. He's
fought for home and country, only to see it destroyed. He found
a way of peace and light, and indirectly killed Hideo Koto in the
process. He moved in the direction of conformity with society in
marrying Tessa, and lost her. Even something as utterly evil as
Hitler had its backlash, both in the failure of the assassination
attempt and the creation of another monster in Wazzername from
Valkyrie. I think that after killing Wazzisname from The
Immortal Cimmoli, and confronting Cage, and killing Karras, who
he fought next to, and losing Darius, who he must have seen as
the strongest hope for eventual peace on the planet, he choked
every time he tried to live by those old standards. He couldn't
do it himself; no way was he going to impose standards that he
couldn't follow on others, or judge them.
ZK
zklee@huskynet.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:03:26 -0400
From: KLZ <zklee@patriot.net>
Subject: YKYBWTMHLW....was/Re: Belated (not admin): Endgame Spoiler lifetime is
over
Jette writes about Endgame release dates:
> n. Lithuania but not
> Britain - and not
> >>the Netherlands either from what I'm told by
> my Dutch
> >>friends.
>
Her Goddessnessnessness queries:
> Do you have a release date yet?
>
And I find myself wondering how Jette got locked up in Duncan's
prison from The Colonel, because I was watching the Stargate SG-1
Season 1 episode "Singularity", and Sam left Cassie in Duncan's
prison. He wasn't there, though, and neither were the bars.
ZK (they all walked down the corrider where Duncan fought
Killian, too)(Jack and Teal'c walking where Duncan fought - the
mind boggles)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 18:20:43 -1000
From: Geiger <geiger@maui.net>
Subject: Re: Morality
Annie--
> Who decides which concept of morality is "right"?
Wendy.
John (not talking to me, but still)--
> Are you suggesting NO restrictions to how people practise their moral
code?
Only when it doesn't restrict _their_ fun, I'd bet. That's usually how
"live & let live" is practiced.
Trilby--
>>>HL illustrated the concept of moral relativity in some of the most
interesting eps. Duncan understood that Kenny's world was
different from his own. Amanda wasn't what 20th-century North
America would call "moral" but we love her anyway, and she was
always able to rationalize theft, deception, and using Duncan's
credit cards.
Relying on my incredibly faulty memory, "Under Color of Authority"
may be one of the best illustrations of moral relativity. Duncan,
Richie, and Mako all had conflicting views of what was "right" or
"moral". None of them were wrong.>>>
Those characters you mention were ALL in the wrong, as portrayed in HL. DM
was ready to kill Kenny by the end of both his eps, & Amanda never convinced
DM she was morally right--she just had other charms to make up for it; as
for UCOA, Mako crossed a line in his lawman's zeal such that DM was ready to
kill him by the end, & RR was so clearly in the wrong in HIS actions
throughout that DM sent him away.
Another example of LOOKING at the morality of a question--which is what HL
did so beautifully & rarely in TV--was in Wrath of Kali; Kamir was morally
right to steal & even kill for Kali, according to HIS culture, but DM
certainly wasn't going to let him kill his university friend, & he killed
him over it. Anyone want to argue THAT was morally wrong of DM, considering
Kamir's cultural mindset? Or even that BOTH men were morally right?
LOOKING at the whole of an issue isn't the same as saying both sides are
morally right. Part of being a moral, cognizant, responsible adult is
examining, choosing & acting on that choice, even when it's excruciatingly
hard. DM did that, every time. That's why he was the hero.
What is disturbing in this discussion of fanfic & slash is the repeated
refrain that there ARE no moral or legal rights being violated, largely
because the violators are having so much fun. And, the violated are either
kept in the dark or are too PC to protest too much in public, so far.
Nina
geiger@maui.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 00:48:01 -0400
From: mousehounde <mousehounde@datalinkc.com>
Subject: Re: Morality
Nina,
I am curious. Have you ever read any fan fiction of any genre?
mouse
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geiger" <geiger@maui.net>
<much snipping>
LOOKING at the whole of an issue isn't the same as saying both sides are
morally right. Part of being a moral, cognizant, responsible adult is
examining, choosing & acting on that choice, even when it's excruciatingly
hard. DM did that, every time. That's why he was the hero.
What is disturbing in this discussion of fanfic & slash is the repeated
refrain that there ARE no moral or legal rights being violated, largely
because the violators are having so much fun. And, the violated are either
kept in the dark or are too PC to protest too much in public, so far.
Nina
geiger@maui.net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 18:59:04 -1000
From: Geiger <geiger@maui.net>
Subject: Re: Morality
mouse--
> I am curious. Have you ever read any fan fiction of any genre?
> mouse
Yes, quite a bit, in several fandoms. But not lately. As a moral choice.
I admit, not a very difficult one, since most fanfic is so very awful,
quality-wise.
Nina (who thought cats were the curious ones)
geiger@maui.net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:44:22 -0700
From: Pat Lawson <plawson@webleyweb.com>
Subject: Re: K/S, sociology and other stuff (Was: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers)
Leah wrote:
>fdd-tmar@netactive.co.za writes:
>
><< I remember someone talking about how David Gerrold (I think) was
> disgusted by slash and persisted in holding up slashy pictures (or was
> it reading from slashy zines, something like that) at conventions
> despite pleas from fans that they didn't want it discussed, and that
> there were children present. Somehow, I don't think he got much sympathy
> for his 'cause' that way. >>
>
>Ah, David Gerrold. All the charm and modesty of Harlan Ellison with one
>quarter of the talent.
ROFLOL! Thanks Leah.
Pat L.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:40:22 -0700
From: Pat Lawson <plawson@webleyweb.com>
Subject: Re: Morality
Annie asked:
> >Who decides which concept of morality is "right"?
To which John replied:
>The only reasonable answer to that is: "the law", a set of restrictions
>which, in a democracy, have been voted as to benefit the rights of the
>people, or at least the largest majority of those people possible.
Can't resist jumping in when I read a statement like this.
You appear to be equating morality with legality. That's a mighty big
leap there John. By extension you're implying all laws in a democracy are
by definition moral. You might want take a closer look at history as well
as current conditions around the world before you make that leap.
At one time in the US the law required fugitive slaves to be returned to
their "owners". I doubt you'd find anyone on this list who believes that
law was moral. Were those who broke the law and helped fugitive slaves
immoral? Was Duncan immoral when he broke the law & helped Carl Robinson?
If an act is immoral for a single person, does it become moral simply
because 50% + 1 of a population votes to make it law? Can morality
actually be determined by public opinion, by the whim of the masses? Such
"morality" has lead to genocide, and doubtless will do so again.
IMGLO morality is based on consistent & rational principles, not the latest
public opinion polls. That holds true whether the polls are conducted by
Gallop or the election commission. Nor am I'm not suggesting those
principles must be based on religion, much less any particular
religion.
>A society has to walk the tightrope between an individual's rights IN
>society and the right of the individual's rights TO society. Otherwise the
>prisons would be empty because murderers would claim their own moral code
>was sufficent right to kill as they saw fit without consequence?
I'm not sure what you mean by "the right of the individual's rights TO
society". By society I'm assuming you mean a collection of
individuals. Rights belong to the individual. Any society can have only
the same rights as it's individual members.
Pat L.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:07:18 -0700
From: Pat Lawson <plawson@webleyweb.com>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
Nina wrote:
>Copyright & trademark rights are not predicated on economic damage. They
>grant exclusive rights on distribution, regardless of money changing hands.
>
>But, if even ONE fanfic reader decided she loves fanfic so much she prefers
>it to the licensed HL products & so no longer buys the licensed HL novels,
>tapes, etc. or goes to see the licensed movie (such as, say, because RR is a
>bit taller in fanfic than in the post-season 5 licensed offerings), then
>you've got economic damage to the franchise owner.
Trotting out a deceased, but apparently immortal, equine and changing the
subject slightly.
Is making, copying, or lending video tapes of broadcast episodes or movies
a violation of copyright? We're talking about distribution of the
material. If so, why aren't those who decry fanfic also vocal about this
common practice?
Pat L.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 08:41:38 +0200
From: Marina Bailey <fdd-tmar@netactive.co.za>
Subject: Re: K/S, sociology and other stuff (Was: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers)
Sandy wrote:
>I assumed that was the reason for it; and it's quite understandable. Maybe
>if we all tried to pay closer attention to what each individual is actually
>saying in their posts, and try to only respond to that individual's words
>or point of view... it would make these discussions a little easier for all
>of us.
You are so right, Sandy.
>I think it's probably in the hope that the actor would publicly slide with
>them (the slash-haters) and thereby somehow validate their
>position. Doesn't make much sense to me, but there ya go!
I wonder what they'd do if the actor went *with* the slash fans? :)
>And I also remember a fanfic writer who handed Jim Byrnes a fanzine at a
>con.
I don't know if this is the same story, but I know of someone who
had two zines, one gen and one erotic (not slash, I don't think, feel
free to correct me) and asked JB which he wanted to read, and he
said, "The dirty one!" <g> In that case you can't blame the fans
for what the actor said, I don't think.
>-- Sandy (who dislikes slash for the same reasons as Wendy)
You know, when I first encountered the concept of slash (age 16 or so)
I was like, "Why would anyone write that? Why? Why?" Then, a few
years later, I read some. I'm not going to say that it all suddenly
made sense - I still don't know for sure why *other* people read or
write it, really. I just know what I like, and I do like it. But
really, I *can* see where the non-slashers like yourself and Wendy
are coming from. I often get puzzled emails from Professionals slash
fans: "How can you not think Pro's is slashy? It's the slashiest
thing ever!!" And all I can say is, "Bodie and Doyle wouldn't do
that. I don't see that in the show." What more can one say, really?
- Marina. (I have read Pro's slash.) (Still does nothing for me.)
(Still don't get it.) (Give me Jim and Blair or Kirk and Spock
anyday.)
\ "But then, we saw that Obi-Wan doth look upon ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// Qui-Gon with lust, and that Mr. Lucas was not || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ likely to include that in the next movie, so we ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// said screw it and wrote it ourselves." - Warning || \\
\\ page of the 'Master & Apprentice' slash site || //
//==fdd-tmar@netactive.co.za=Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie==\\
I want to go back to my home planet - if someone would please tell
me where it is! - Tarryn
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 17:35:08 +1000
From: Carmel Macpherson <Carmel@stuartfieldhouse.com>
Subject: Re: K/S, sociology and other stuff (Was: ATTN: All Fan Fic writer s)
HI all
Liser said:
<<..(edited)
1. Someone brings up slash in some capacity.
3b. People get offended.
3d. People get offended.
3f. People get offended.
4. The list blows up...>>
LOL!! Brilliant - which in my experience the topic is a total no-win one.
I don't think that the issue is confined to slash however. I can no more
explain to someone why I like avocado when they have tasted it and are
repelled by the taste or find it bland. My taste buds adore it. Liser and
Wendy asked some excellent questions. I can only talk for me but here goes.
(But I'm not setting out to change anyone's mind - our preferences are very
personal and the result of complex and varied conditioning and experiences).
I read very widely - and not just fanfic. In fanfic I read het as well as
slash although I read far more slash than het because there *is* a lot more
slash. I have a long list of het/gen writers whose work I always read.
There are some brilliant writers in HL in both genres. I love the
Duncan/Tessa relationship (indeed, it was the thing that attracted me to
Highlander). I love the fact that Duncan is confident enough to surround
himself with strong women. I love Amanda and Duncan. I love Methos and
Duncan. I love RELATIONSHIPS and they way good writers explore
relationships amongst interesting characters - and they don't come much more
interesting that Duncan, Methos, Amanda, Richie, Joe...Highlander did its
characters so well - they are so rich, and so the world they live in is in
itself so fascinating that you have all the elements for good writers to
explore the dynamics of living in that world and with each other - and
taking it further. I also like the stories I read to be consistent, as far
as possible, with canon or be explicable within the canon. They have to make
sense in terms of the people I saw on the screen.
I differentiate between porn and erotica. I detest porn - find it boring
and very very poorly written. I find that the majority of slash I come
across to be differentiated quite markedly from porn. Porn I define as
written around a very boring portrayal of sex, with the fact that two human
beings are attached to the various bodily parts to be quite irrelevant.
Slash I define as erotica, with the bodily parts of secondary interest to
the people attached to them. There are many slash stories that do not even
mention sex or have anything to do with it. To be slash, in my world, it
must be relationship driven, not sex driven. You see this in movies as well
- the sex scene in Endgame with Kate (both of them) were stunningly
beautiful and highly erotic because they were integral to the story that was
being told. The exploration of body was a consistent and believable
occurrence within the context of the story being told. The way in which the
two love scenes juxtaposed was beautifully done - right down to the
different bodily positions in the present because Kate is a very different
person in the present. The love scene in Justice is another good example.
That's not to say that you can't have both. But for me to stay interested
the sex must make sense in the context of the story and the relationship -
and I want a whole lot more than
bang/bang/boink/boink/boink/ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZwhich defines porn
for me. Some PwPs, het and slash stories I regard as porn and put them
aside - not for moral reasons but because I find them boring and would
rather use the time to read something that reveals more of the character.
In relation to the PwPs...sex without plots. I read them if they are well
written, in either genre. These can be difficult to write because they can
so easily slip into the porn definition I used above. How many different
ways can you write about the mechanics of love-making in a way that is
clever, interesting etc etc?? This isn't a problem confined to slash.
Bottom line for me (no pun intended) is that I read and enjoy stories that
are well written and relationship and character driven.
Even within the het and slash genres however there are sharp delineations.
Some readers will read any pairing and it will make sense to them It
doesn't for me or many others. The only HL slash I regularly read is Duncan
and Methos. So you see, even within the slash community there are people
saying the same things as you Liser: "Methos and RICHIE (substitute your
pairing of choice)!!!!!!!! I just done GET IT!!!!" and I admit that I rarely
read slash outside of my preferred pairing, even if it is very well written.
I'd prefer to read a Duncan/Tessa or Duncan/Anne or Duncan/Methos.
The story still has to make sense within the Highlander world I have
constructed in my own mind - and that world has Duncan as predominantly
heterosexual until a certain old guy broadened his horizons. I don't see
Duncan or Methos as gay, but as bi-sexual. And even within the Duncan/Methos
relationship I see Duncan and Methos both being attracted to women.
Why does the fact that Duncan could be drawn to a male as fascinating as
Methos make sense to me? Because it fulfils all the characteristics I've
seen of Duncan for the previous seasons and therefore *I* can see it as
consistent with canon. Up until Methos exploded onto our screens, I'd never
ever thought about Duncan with another man. But it made sense to me that
something would eventuate with a character like Methos because I know Duncan
to be a man who:
*is very intense in his relationships with strong partners
*defines sensuality - he is incredibly oral/tactile (that mouth and those
hands were born to sin)
*is at a point in his life when Methos comes along where he is very lonely
and looking for a good friend and companion - Methos fulfils this and is
5,000 years old to boot and is an Immortal. This is a whole new experience
for Duncan who enjoys the friendship very much. It is therefore a very good
basis for further exploration. Are all Duncan's good male friendships a good
basis - no :-)
*in Methos, has living proof that one can be very masculine and have
experimented widely in relationship to sex. Don't tell me that Methos has
lived that long, through some of the most decadent empires in the world, and
not had male lovers and orgies. And don't tell me that it wouldn't be
normal and natural for Duncan to be fascinated by these stories, over chess
and alcohol with Methos. Or that Methos wouldn't enjoy telling them....
*already has demonstrated that he is happy to have good friends who are also
bed buddies, like Amanda. So he is happy to use sex as part of a wider
aspect of friendship with certain people.
The important element for Duncan, as I see it, would be a firm belief that
having sex with a man didn't in any way dilute his masculinity/warrior view
of himself. Intellectually I'm sure that he knows that this is possible
(many famous warriors were gay or bi) and I've no doubt that on many of
those long lonely and cold nights spent only with fellow warriors that there
wasn't the odd bit of warming and mutually pleasurable entertainment going
on under those kilts......but I can see Methos as someone with whom Duncan
could actually discuss these views of masculinity and give a historical
perspective on it beyond anything that Duncan has experienced or thought
through before - and take further.
So Liser and Wendy I don't know whether I've managed to confuse things even
more but that is why I enjoy reading what I read and writing what I write.
But I don't ever try and convert anyone or expect them to understand any
more than I can understand why some people read what they do and enjoy the
things that they enjoy. Some things just don't make sense to us and never
will - but of course that doesn't mean that we can't live and let live.
Also, I don't think that fanfic loses D-P any money. Indeed, I think that in
keeping alive the HL universe it keeps fans who in turn buy more d-P
products - like EndGame DVDs. Fanfic is an incredible glue that binds
entire HL communities and in the absence of any eps or films serves a very
real purpose. If Bill thought it was damaging the franchise I have no doubt
that he would have done something about it by now.
Sandy also made some excellent points about different groups within the
fanficdom...I think that there are slashers (people who enjoy any male
pairings and within slash there are people who only enjoy certain pairings
down to certain pairing in a certain show and don't read beyond that.)
That's why it gets difficult when the discussion tends to generalise or
categorise everyone under the same headings. Certain fanfic I enjoy and
certain fanfic I don't. Certain slash and certain het fits into both camps.
Kind regards
@ Carmel Macpherson:
<<<@{}=================>>> Chief EDFWs
@ carmel@hldu.org
http://www.carmelmacpherson.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Highlander DownUnder: The Official HL Fan Club of Australia
PO Box 198, Brisbane Albert St QLD 4002, Australia.
OR, for US members, make out checks to Fran and send $US25 to: Fran Koerner
P. O. Box 3565, Palos Verdes, CA 90274
Visit the HLDU club site: http://www.hldu.org
***HLDU5. May 2003. Brisbane***
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The other half of that problem I mentioned above? The one that
doesn't lie with the "like it" folks? It's the "hate it" folks,
waving banners of their own. This is one topic that is absolutely
guaranteed to split a fandom. It's right up there with killing a
character and resolving sexual tension.
I've been writing fic in the HL fandom since 1995. I've seen some
trends in genre and style come and go. I've seen authors rise and
fall in popularity--done it myself, even. I think the trend that
disturbs me most, though is the...oh...how to phrase it?
Heee heee....it's the creation of a Slash Inner Circle. (Hello, Pot?
Yeah, this is Liser...you're black.) In an earlier post, Marina
mentioned that she only reads slash. Hey, that's cool. Everyone is
entitled to read and write what they like. Some people only read
Duncan stories, or Methos stories...or refuse to read anything with
an OFC. There has always been a line between those who read slash
and those who don't. What's happened, though, IMO, is that the line
became a DMZ--complete with barbed wire and guard towers. (Is it like
that in every fandom, or are we just a special breed?)
And then people start justifying on every side of the argument. The
actors don't like it. The actors love it. It's a violation of
copyright. Bill Panzer told me himself that he finds it
scintillating.
What-the-frell-ever. Read what you want. Don't read what you don't
want. Pass the lube. Pass the rosary beads. Slap my ass and call
me Richie Ryan. Just please, PLEASE, don't pretend that the grass is
any greener on your side of that fence. It's not.
There is no moral higher ground. We're all stuck here at eye-level.
Liser
(sekrit message to Annie: my favorite bumper sticker ever is "My
karma ran over your dogma")(well....that and "Come the Rapture! Can I
have you car?")(but that second one is off topic...)
--
LC Krakowka ** liser@lightlink.com
"The creations of a great writer are little more than the moods and
passions of his own heart, given surnames and Christian names, and
sent to walk the earth." --W. B. Yeats, letter to editor - 1895
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:12:53 +0100
From: Jette Goldie <jette@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Re: YKYBWTMHLW....was/Re: Belated (not admin): Endgame Spoiler
lifetime is over
KLZ ponders:
> Jette writes about Endgame release dates:
> > n. Lithuania but not Britain - and not
>>the Netherlands either from what I'm told by
> > my Dutch friends.
> >
>
> Her Goddessnessnessness queries:
>
> > Do you have a release date yet?
> >
>
> And I find myself wondering how Jette got locked up in Duncan's
> prison from The Colonel, because I was watching the Stargate SG-1
> Season 1 episode "Singularity", and Sam left Cassie in Duncan's
> prison. He wasn't there, though, and neither were the bars.
>
> ZK (they all walked down the corrider where Duncan fought
> Killian, too)(Jack and Teal'c walking where Duncan fought - the
> mind boggles)
And Jette wonders just what her friend has been drinking tonight
to get that connection? ;-)
(Jack & Co frequently wander around scenery that Duncan & Co
have walked past first - Washington looks a lot like Seacouver
and various alien planets look like the Pacific North West <g>)
(hubby is bored with me yelling "been there!" or "oh that's where
Duncan and Joe did X, Y, Z")
Jette
bosslady@scotlandmail.com
Lt General Bosslady, SG-6, Search and Rescue.
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
The difference between men and boys
is the cost of their toys"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:17:43 +0100
From: Jette Goldie <jette@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Re: K/S,
sociology and other stuff (Was: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers)
Marina says:
> I don't know if this is the same story, but I know of someone who
> had two zines, one gen and one erotic (not slash, I don't think, feel
> free to correct me) and asked JB which he wanted to read, and he
> said, "The dirty one!" <g> In that case you can't blame the fans
> for what the actor said, I don't think.
Not quite right, Marina.
JB was asked what kind of stories he'd like to see Joe get
in future (to him the implication was most likely on the
show) and he replied he'd like to see Joe get more *action*
(love/romance stories).
The 'zine editor then used this as an excuse to give him the
erotic zine (it was mainly Joe/OFC or Joe/Amanda with
one Joe/Methos)
Jette
Glory may be fleeting, but obscurity is forever!
bosslady@scotlandmail.com
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fanfic.html
------------------------------
End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 14 Jul 2001 to 15 Jul 2001 - Special issue (#2001-199)
*******************************************************************************