There are 5 messages totalling 295 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Endgame (5) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 09:10:39 -0500 From: Karla Julian <julkm@home.com> Subject: Endgame Seems they are still beating up on the movie. I was surprised to see this review on the front page of the Cox.com Simply Connecticut page. When I saw Highlander Endgame, I was intrigued enough to click on it. I was sorry I did after reading this horrid review. Read on if you dare. :-) Karla See What's New From Cox Highlander: Endgame Main movies page Verdict: 'Highlander' series can't be killed by normal means. Details: Starring Christopher Lambert and Adrian Paul. Rated R for violence. Review: At one point the young immortal looks up at his older immortal mentor and asks, "Connor, what the hell is going on?" People who pay to see Highlander: Endgame probably will be asking one another the same question. The fourth movie in the series that began with Highlander in 1986 ends essentially the same way as the first three movies. But there are so many confusing turns, plot deadends, red herrings, interminable flashbacks and special-effects-muddled fight scenes along the way that you'll need a color-coded flow chart to follow the story to its familiar climax. Highlander: Endgame is not a continuation of a story line begun with Highlander and advanced in its two movie sequels. In fact, the sequels--the atrocious Highlander II: The Quickening from 1991 and the boring Highlander: The Final Dimension from 1994--are completely ignored. Endgame instead melds the story line from the original movie with the plots from the Highlander television series that ran from 1993 to 1999. The Highlander mythology involves a group of immortal beings who have been living among humans for thousands of years. They can't be killed by normal means, but they duel with one another with swords and if one immortal cuts off the head of the other, the winner gains the strength and knowledge of the loser. Ultimately, according to the Highlander legend, "There can be only one," and the last immortal standing wins the Prize, which is never explained. Endgame begins with the immortal hero of the first movie, Connor MacLeod (Christopher Lambert), dropping out of sight after a woman he loves is killed in an explosion. Constantly outliving his loved ones has finally broken Connor's will, and he retires to the Sanctuary where worn-out immortals are held in drug-induced suspended animation. A group of renegade immortals led by arch-villain Jacob Kell (Bruce Payne) invades the Sanctuary and kills the dormant immortals. Duncan MacLeod (Adrian Paul), the hero of the Highlander television series, refuses to believe his old friend Connor was killed in the attack. But when Duncan starts investigating Connor's whereabouts, he's attacked by Kell and his henchmen. There are subplots about a woman Duncan once loved who now hates him, an honorable Asian warrior now enslaved to Kell, a group of mortal "Watchers" who keep tabs on the endless immortal duels, a priest who tries to burn Connor's mother at the stake and lots of other reasons why everybody wants to cut everybody else's head off. But, of course, it all comes down to the bravest, most resourceful good guy facing off against the strongest, most depraved bad guy in a fight to the death. The first Highlander was not a particularly good movie, but it had style and was based on an interesting idea. Highlander: Endgame starts promisingly with magnificent footage, shot in Romania, of Connor MacLeod riding through hills representing Scotland, where he lived his first lifetime. But it quickly goes astray with fight scenes laden with too many bullets, too many explosions, too many sparks, lightning bolts and weird lights--and too many impalings. The martial-arts choreography is rendered unimpressive by the fact camera tricks were obviously used to speed up the action. The middle of the movie drags along with the characters stopping every five minutes to explain the rules of the immortal game and why some characters follow the rules while others don't. And then it ends, as Highlander stories generally do, with a beheading. The third Highlander movie was subtitled Final Dimension, and this one is subtitled Endgame, but don't expect it to be over. There can be only one immortal, and apparently a few are still kicking. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 09:10:39 -1000 From: Geiger <geiger@maui.net> Subject: Re: Endgame Karla wrote-- > Seems they are still beating up on the movie. Well, it sucked--for largely the very reasons specified in this review. Actually, this reviewer gets point from me for knowing about the Highlander universe, _watching_ this flick, & paying close enough attention to figure out the details--all despite the MANY factors conspiring to convolute. > I was intrigued enough to click on it. I was sorry I did after reading this horrid review Why? Was it "horrid" just because the reviewer panned the film, or because you disagreed w/ specific points the reviewer made? Nina (BAD editing) geiger@maui.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 20:29:50 +0000 From: John Mosby <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: Endgame Apart from a few slip-ups in accuracy, the reviewer has at least tried to give a full picture of what they thought. As I've said in the past, a film reviewer may be able to write a 'better' review if he's familiar with other facets of a frachise, but essentially his/her job is to judge the hour/two hour that he views on the day. Most reviews I saw of Endgame, were fair if not pleasant reading. A great movie doesn't need baggage or familiarity. Lord of the Rings is a (trilogy of) books that I haven't picked up in twenty years. That actually allowed some ability to judge the film, rather than see it strictly as an adaptation. Sometimes that's good, sometimes not. I found Highlander: Endgame, as we've discussed for over a year, to be a film that had some solid foundations and ideas but was scuppered by a confusing plot, appalling inconsistent editing and a blatantly misleading advertsing campaign. It did extremely bad opening business in a week when a half decent film should have excelled. The reviewer makes some valid comments, in some cases being kind. I love Highlander and it has brought me many happy hours, friends and moments of joy. Endgame wasn't one of them and my review was hardly more positive...and I KNOW the franchise inside-out. But I think the debates we've had here are maybe one good thing to come out of it. Whether we agree or disagree on some of the fundenmental choices made by those who own the Highlander franchise....it endures in us. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 16:09:53 -0500 From: Elaine Nicol <ElaineN@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Endgame >> Seems they are still beating up on the movie. I was surprised to see this review on the front page of the Cox.com Simply Connecticut page. When I saw Highlander Endgame, I was intrigued enough to click on it. I was sorry I did after reading this horrid review. Read on if you dare. << I did read on, and at least the person who wrote this has watched the movies and the TV and has some knowledge of the immortals and the Highlander universe, so I think they are entitled to their opinion. Personally I think Endgame is the poorest of all the movies, but it wasn't that bad but then I am biased and declare that from the outset. The movie did Adrian no favours it could have been a great movie, in fact from what we see it looks as though the bits that would have made it great finished up on the cutting room floor simply as a sacrifice to time constraints as opposed to artistic reasons. I have to agree about too many bullets and explosions and yes to someone who doesn't know Highlander inside out the way we do it would be confusing, I know people who do know it well who thought it was confusing. What would I have liked - cut Kate out that relationship was a waste of time and the only real purpose it seemed to serve was to give a sex scene. The scene with Connor's mother was important and it should have been made clearer about Kell's involvement there. Many people I know had a problem with that. Methos should have been in there a little more and explained more. Something should have been done to explain the Joe and Methos relationship more. I'm certain there are any number of us here who could have done better or knows where it could have been better. I'm also betting that those responsible for it know exactly what we know and are every bit as annoyed as we are. I've just watched the director's cut of the second one now just don't get me started on that. I thought the original was bad. ;-/ Elaine. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 19:33:46 -0500 From: Miracle <kad82987@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu> Subject: Re: Endgame someone wrote: > When I saw Highlander Endgame, I was intrigued enough to click on it. I > was sorry I did after reading this horrid review. Read on if you dare. << If someone still has the URL handy, could they please e-mail it me OFFLIST, so we don't clog the list up? Danke. And seeing as how I missed the discussion of HL4 the first time around, I'm going to jump in this time. Elaine Nichol wrote: > Personally I think Endgame is the poorest of all the movies I dunno...HL2, Cheesy Zeist Version(tm) may still have that dubious distinction. However, there were fewer plot holes. Just general bad plot. :) > in fact from what we see it looks as though the bits that would have > made it great finished up on the cutting room floor simply as a > sacrifice to time constraints as opposed to artistic reasons. In writing workshops, I see authors cutting things that may not have been relevant to the plot, but would have helped the plot make more sense. I haven't really seen any of this cutting room material, but it seems to me this could be some of what was missing. I think what the film suffered from overall was flat characters. *We* all know the depth these characters have. I don't think it came out in the movie. Methos and Joe seemed almost extraneous. ("Hi, I'm Methos. I explain a few things, then I leave." "I'm Joe. I drive the car.") > I know people who do know it well who thought it was confusing. ::raises hand:: But I did like it. Partially I think it was the experience (I went with some very good friends, all HL fans). It was nice to see Connor again. The sword-work was excellent. > I've just watched the director's cut of the second one now just don't get > me started on that. I thought the original was bad. ;-/ I've actually come to love Cheesy Zeist Version (tm) and here's how you all can too. Get a bunch of friends, lots of sugar and/or caffeine, and have your own Mystery Science Theatre 3000 version!! --Miracle (also, if you can find the fan MST3K--at cons and such--it's worth a look) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "An extremely good-looking man was sitting in my lap, in just his underwear, and I was focused on the inadequacy of my students' writings. I needed to reprioritize." --Domino: Heads or Tails? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Minor Major Miracle: Time Lady, Jedi Knight, Occasional Grad Student ------------------------------ End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 28 Dec 2001 to 29 Dec 2001 (#2001-328) ***************************************************************